What is the significance of "Asherah" to LDS?

[Mudcat]

I was reading Ray Callis' thread on Asherah. It brought to mind that over the years I have seen this name brought up here MAD.

Last night I searched lds.org for articles on Asherah.

There were three there.

I perused them.

I Googled it a came up with this article done by Dr. Peterson at the Maxwell Institute

I also read a bit on the article.

I don't know that I really have a clear understanding to what/who Asherah is and how Asherah interplays with LDS beliefs in the concrete or speculative senses.

If any of you are so inclined would you mind giving me your thoughts on the subject, as I just don't seem to have a good understanding of what it is all about?

Thanks in advance.

Respectfully,

Mudcat

[bluebell]

Asherah really plays no part in LDS doctrine. I had never even heard the word before i came to this site-i've never heard it spoken in church and would guess that 90% of church members have also never heard the word.

That's not to say that it's not a beneficial subject to study or that it doesn't relate to LDS beliefs in some way. It's just a more scholarly subject that most members will never be aware of.

[urroner]

Asherah doesn't mean anything to me, but the myths of ancient middle east, including those of ancient Israel, had El/Elyon, the father god (I don't know if I should make that a capital G or not.) had several sons which composed the Council of Elyon. In Isreal's myths, I don't know about the others, there were 70 sons and El divided the nations between his sons to rule over and be their god. The most prominent of El's sons, YWHW/Jehovah, was given the most choice country, Israel.

The sons of Elyon (Elyon means "the most high god.) had a mother and her name was Asherah. She was the consort of El. Over time, as the myths changed, YWHW eventually took the place of Elyon and Asherah became his consort and eventually Asherah disappeared with just YWHW remaining.

From Margaret Barker's (I picked a non_Mormon scholar here) article The Images of Mary in the Litany of Loreto

All these problems of reconstruction can be traced to King Josiah

[kolipoki09]

We brought up Asherah when we covered Jeremiah a few weeks ago. We were discussing Josiah's reformation and how (depending on where you read your history) there are conflicting stories about whether Josiah's reform was an actual success or a dismal failure. Margaret Barker seems to fall into the camp of belief that Josiah's reform was a dismal failure, a theme she picks up on in a very valuable lecture she gave at BYU in 2003.

What did King Josiah Reform?

I plan on discussing Asherah more when we study the Book of Mormon in 2012. After reading Kevin Barney's How to Worship Our Mother in Heaven (Without Getting Excommunicated), my life was changed completely.

Since then, other author's comments on Asherah have launched me into a number of academic pursuits on the subject that I've found dramatically faith-promoting and invigorating.

[Mudcat]

I plan on discussing Asherah more when we study the Book of Mormon in 2012. After reading Kevin Barney's How to Worship Our Mother in Heaven (Without Getting Excommunicated), my life was changed completely.

Since then, other author's comments on Asherah have launched me into a number of academic pursuits on the subject that I've found dramatically faith-promoting and invigorating.

Well, stepping out of the box for a moment (my own particular box of beliefs that is).

I would think that a person who had beliefs that they found interlinked to some degree with the Hebrews, like LDS seem to have. And they also believed in the concept of a Heavenly Mother in some respect, not the wife of the Son but rather the Father. And then finding evidence that, even though there seems to be a great deal of muddle to it, the old Hebrews may have plausibly held a similar belief of sorts would be exciting to some extent.

In a way this would seem to be an affirmation of sorts from the distant past.

There would seem to be a hinge pin of sorts in making such a connection.

That being.

1. The Hebrews had access to the same knowledge, or at least similar knowledge, of the concept of a Heavenly Mother.

2. The Hebrews took this knowledge and muddled it up quite a bit throughout history to the point that it wasn't really consistent at all.

.. Just some thoughts as I am kicking the idea about.

[ebeddoulos]

I believe in a Mother in Heaven. I believe I have good authority to do so:

"All human beings

[zerinus]

I was reading Ray Callis' thread on Asherah. It brought to mind that over the years I have seen this name brought up here MAD.

Last night I searched lds.org for articles on Asherah.

There were three there.

I perused them.

I Googled it a came up with this article done by Dr. Peterson at the Maxwell Institute

I also read a bit on the article.

I don't know that I really have a clear understanding to what/who Asherah is and how Asherah interplays with LDS beliefs in the concrete or speculative senses.

If any of you are so inclined would you mind giving me your thoughts on the subject, as I just don't seem to have a good understanding of what it is all about?

Thanks in advance.

Respectfully,

Mudcat

Asherah appears to be the idol that is referred to in the KJV as "the qween of heaven," which is one of the idols (along with Baal, Molech, and the rest) that the idolatrous Jews worshiped during the times of their wickedness, which was the cause of the Lord being angry with them, and allowing them to be taken into captivity by Babylon. It was the cause of their downfall. The Lord through the Prophet Jeremiah condemns this idolatrous practice in the strongest therms:

Jeremiah 7

:

18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to

make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods,

that they may provoke me to anger.

19 Do they provoke me to anger? saith the Lord: do they not provoke themselves to the confusion of their own faces?

20 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Behold, mine anger and my fury shall be poured out upon this place, upon man, and upon beast, and upon the trees of the field, and upon the fruit of the ground; and it shall burn, and shall not be quenched.

Jeremiah 44

:

15 Then all the men which knew that their wives had

burned incense unto other gods,

and all the women that stood by, a great multitude, even all the people that dwelt in the land of Egypt, in Pathros, answered Jeremiah, saying,

16 As for the word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name of the Lord, we will not hearken unto thee.

17 But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to

burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her,

as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil.

18 But since we left off to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, we have wanted all things, and have been consumed by the sword and by the famine.

19 And when we burned incense to the queen of heaven, and poured out drink offerings unto her, did we make her cakes to worship her, and pour out drink offerings unto her, without our men?

20 Then Jeremiah said unto all the people, to the men, and to the women, and to all the people which had given him that answer, saying,

21 The incense that ye burned in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem, ye, and your fathers, your kings, and your princes, and the people of the land, did not the Lord remember them, and came it not into his mind?

22 So that the Lord could no longer bear, because of the evil of your doings, and because of the abominations which ye have committed; therefore is your land a desolation, and an astonishment, and a curse, without an inhabitant, as at this day.

23 Because ye have burned incense, and because ye have sinned against the Lord, and have not obeyed the voice of the Lord, nor walked in his law, nor in his statutes, nor in his testimonies; therefore this evil is happened unto you, as at this day.

24 Moreover Jeremiah said unto all the people, and to all the women, Hear the word of the Lord, all Judah that are in the land of Egypt:

25 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel, saying; Ye and your wives have both spoken with your mouths, and fulfilled with your hand, saying, We will surely perform our vows that we have vowed, to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her: ye will surely accomplish your vows, and surely perform your vows.

26 Therefore hear ye the word of the Lord, all Judah that dwell in the land of Egypt; Behold, I have sworn by my great name, saith the Lord, that my name shall no more be named in the mouth of any man of Judah in all the land of Egypt, saying, The Lord God liveth.

27 Behold, I will watch over them for evil, and not for good: and all the men of Judah that are in the land of Egypt shall be consumed by the sword and by the famine, until there be an end of them.

28 Yet a small number that escape the sword shall return out of the land of Egypt into the land of Judah, and all the remnant of Judah, that are gone into the land of Egypt to sojourn there, shall know whose words shall stand, mine, or theirs.

Other words used for it in the KJV are "Astoreth":

1 Kings 11

:

5 For Solomon went after

Ashtoreth

the goddess of the Zidonians, and after Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites.

33 Because that they have forsaken me, and have worshipped

Ashtoreth

the goddess of the Zidonians, Chemosh the god of the Moabites, and Milcom the god of the children of Ammon, and have not walked in my ways, to do that which is right in mine eyes, and to keep my statutes and my judgments, as did David his father.

2 Kings 23

:

13 And the high places that were before Jerusalem, which were on the right hand of the mount of corruption, which Solomon the king of Israel had builded for

Ashtoreth

the abomination of the Zidonians, and for Chemosh the abomination of the Moabites, and for Milcom the abomination of the children of Ammon, did the king defile.

And "groves":

Exodus 34

:

13 But ye shall destroy their altars, break their images, and cut down their

groves

Deuteronomy 7

:

5 But thus shall ye deal with them; ye shall destroy their altars, and break down their images, and cut down their

groves

, and burn their graven images with fire.

Deuteronomy 12

:

3 And ye shall overthrow their altars, and break their pillars, and burn their

groves

with fire; and ye shall hew down the graven images of their gods, and destroy the names of them out of that place.

Judges 3

:

7 And the children of Israel did evil in the sight of the Lord, and forgat the Lord their God, and served Baalim and the

groves

.

1 Kings 14

:

15 For the Lord shall smite Israel, as a reed is shaken in the water, and he shall root up Israel out of this good land, which he gave to their fathers, and shall scatter them beyond the river, because they have made their

groves

, provoking the Lord to anger.

1 Kings 14

:

23 For they also built them high places, and images, and

groves

, on every high hill, and under every green tree.

1 Kings 18

:

19 Now therefore send, and gather to me all Israel unto mount Carmel, and the prophets of Baal four hundred and fifty, and the prophets of the

groves

four hundred, which eat at Jezebel's table.

2 Kings 17

:

10 And they set them up images and

groves

in every high hill, and under every green tree

2 Kings 18

:

4 He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the

groves

, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan.

2 Kings 23

:

14 And he brake in pieces the images, and cut down the

groves

, and filled their places with the bones of men.

2 Chronicles 14

:

3 For he took away the altars of the strange gods, and the high places, and brake down the images, and cut down the

groves

2 Chronicles 17

:

6 And his heart was lifted up in the ways of the Lord: moreover he took away the high places and

groves

out of Judah.

2 Chronicles 19

:

3 Nevertheless there are good things found in thee, in that thou hast taken away the

groves

out of the land, and hast prepared thine heart to seek God.

2 Chronicles 24

:

18 And they left the house of the Lord God of their fathers, and served

groves

and idols: and wrath came upon Judah and Jerusalem for this their trespass.

2 Chronicles 31

:

1 Now when all this was finished, all Israel that were present went out to the cities of Judah, and brake the images in pieces, and cut down the

groves

, and threw down the high places and the altars out of all Judah and Benjamin, in Ephraim also and Manasseh, until they had utterly destroyed them all. Then all the children of Israel returned, every man to his possession, into their own cities.

2 Chronicles 33

:

3 For he built again the high places which Hezekiah his father had broken down, and he reared up altars for Baalim, and made

groves

, and worshipped all the host of heaven, and served them.

2 Chronicles 33

:

19 His prayer also, and how God was intreated of him, and all his sin, and his trespass, and the places wherein he built high places, and set up

groves

and graven images, before he was humbled: behold, they are written among the sayings of the seers.

2 Chronicles 34

:

3 For in the eighth year of his reign, while he was yet young, he began to seek after the God of David his father: and in the twelfth year he began to purge Judah and Jerusalem from the high places, and the

groves

, and the carved images, and the molten images.

2 Chronicles 34

:

4 And they brake down the altars of Baalim in his presence; and the images, that were on high above them, he cut down; and the

groves

, and the carved images, and the molten images, he brake in pieces, and made dust of them, and strowed it upon the graves of them that had sacrificed unto them.

2 Chronicles 34

:

7 And when he had broken down the altars and the

groves

, and had beaten the graven images into powder, and cut down all the idols throughout all the land of Israel, he returned to Jerusalem.

Isaiah 17

:

8 And he shall not look to the altars, the work of his hands, neither shall respect that which his fingers have made, either the

groves

, or the images.

Isaiah 27

:

9 By this therefore shall the iniquity of Jacob be purged; and this is all the fruit to take away his sin; when he maketh all the stones of the altar as chalkstones that are beaten in sunder, the

groves

and images shall not stand up.

Micah 5

:

14 And I will pluck up thy

groves

out of the midst of thee: so will I destroy thy cities.

It was abominable idolatry pure and simple. There was nothing virtuous or righteous about it at all. How anybody can see this as having legitimate doctrinal significance for Latter-day Saints is beyond me.

[Kevin Christensen]

For an article that takes a contexualizing approach, rather than a proof-texting approach, along with Dr. Peterson's important essay, try Kevin Barney:

http://www.fairlds.org/pubs/MotherInHeaven.pdf

Saying "How anybody can see this as having legitimate doctrinal significance for Latter-day Saints is beyond me" is a fair admission. The block quoting notably does not include any discussion of the interesting Hebrew punning in Proverbs, as in Daniel Peterson's Nephi and His Asherah (here quoting the JBMS version):

The use of the Hebrew word ashre in this connection

[zerinus]

For an article that takes a contexualizing approach, rather than a proof-texting approach, along with Dr. Peterson's important essay, try Kevin Barney:

http://www.fairlds.org/pubs/MotherInHeaven.pdf

Saying "How anybody can see this as having legitimate doctrinal significance for Latter-day Saints is beyond me" is a fair admission. The block quoting notably does not include any discussion of the interesting Hebrew punning in Proverbs, as in Daniel Peterson's Nephi and His Asherah (here quoting the JBMS version):

I'm also very impressed with Dever's Did God Have a Wife, and Von Veldt's insightful review in the FARMS Review:

http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/review/?vol=19&num=1&id=639

For instance:

I had a look at the first article, but did not have time for the second; and it is not much different from Daniel Peterson's article. It is pure speculation. Speculation is the enemy of good scholarship. For example, he dismisses the uncompromising condemnation of

[jadams_4242]

I was reading Ray Callis' thread on Asherah. It brought to mind that over the years I have seen this name brought up here MAD.

Last night I searched lds.org for articles on Asherah.

There were three there.

I perused them.

I Googled it a came up with this article done by Dr. Peterson at the Maxwell Institute

I also read a bit on the article.

I don't know that I really have a clear understanding to what/who Asherah is and how Asherah interplays with LDS beliefs in the concrete or speculative senses.

If any of you are so inclined would you mind giving me your thoughts on the subject, as I just don't seem to have a good understanding of what it is all about?

Thanks in advance.

Respectfully,

Mudcat

Yes in ancient temples it was to represent the tree of life. Josiah tried all he could do to remove it from view to mainstream christianity.

[changed]

I was reading Ray Callis' thread on Asherah. It brought to mind that over the years I have seen this name brought up here MAD.

Last night I searched lds.org for articles on Asherah.

There were three there.

I perused them.

I Googled it a came up with this article done by Dr. Peterson at the Maxwell Institute

I also read a bit on the article.

I don't know that I really have a clear understanding to what/who Asherah is and how Asherah interplays with LDS beliefs in the concrete or speculative senses.

If any of you are so inclined would you mind giving me your thoughts on the subject, as I just don't seem to have a good understanding of what it is all about?

Thanks in advance.

Respectfully,

Mudcat

My "wild" speculations

concerning trees:

(Old Testament | Genesis 21:33)

33 And Abraham planted a grove in Beer-sheba, and called there on the name of the LORD, the everlasting God.

It seems there are some who can worship in groves, while others cannot... sort of like some can go into the holy of holies, while others cannot?

Joseph Smith's first vision happened in a grove....

The tree of life play a large role in many things...

And I looked and beheld a tree; and it was like unto the tree which my father had seen; and the beauty thereof was far beyond, yea, exceeding of all beauty...

Gen 3: 24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

In the OT tabernacle, the contents of the arc contain a tree...

some of my old notes:

(New Testament | Hebrews 9:3 - 5)

And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;

Which had the:

1.) golden censer, and the

ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the:

2.) golden pot that had manna, and

3.) Aaron's rod that budded, and

4.) the tables of the covenant;

And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat;

"

1.) golden censer, I think the golden censer represents the Holy Spirit, both associated with fire.

" Censer - A metal vessel made to receive burning charcoal from the altar, and in which incense was sprinkled by a priest (Lev. 16:12; Num. 4:14; 1 Kgs. 7:50; 2 Chr. 26:18

[aspire]

I think She goes by many different names too... perhaps some of her names are: wisdom, the love of God, the pure love of Christ, charity, the tree of life, the mystery of the kingdom of God, hidden riches, etc. etc. if you read the scriptures looking for Her, and trying to figure out all of Her names, you can find some interesting stuff...

I personally think that it is a good thing to "seek for wisdom"...

If you decide to ask for Wisdom, remember, before you ask, you are commanded:

(New Testament | Matthew 7:6 - 7)

6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

Those who have figured out how important it is to seek for Her, have also figured out that it is equally important not to talk about what you find...

(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 10:35 - 37)

35 Marvel not that I said unto you: Here is wisdom, show it not unto the world