Part 2 - Moroni, the 'Guardian Angel of America'

[Sevenbak]

So, seeing how the other thread was diverted off topic so thoroughly, I wanted to start another to post the statements from both Columbus and Washington that allude to the notion of divine help, even angelic help.

Washington's "Prophecy of America" is highly debated, it's not first hand, but it contains some elements that sound a whole lot like he had a Moroni type figure speaking to him.

I've bolded the relevant parts. The 2nd is especially insightful about what is to come, based on numerous LDS Prophet statements:

GEORGE WASHINGTON'S PROPHESY OF AMERICA

The father of our country, George Washington, was a man of prayer. We have all read of how he went to the thicket many times to pray during the winter his army was at Valley Forge. However, little publicity has been given to the vision and prophecy he received at that time. The account of this vision was given in 1859 by an old soldier. He gave it to a writer, Wesley Bradshaw, who published it. In the vision God revealed to George Washington that three great perils would come upon the Republic. He was given to know that America was going through the first peril at that time. The old soldier who told the story of the vision said that the nation would soon see the account verified by the second peril descending upon the land. We give the account here as it was reprinted in the U. S. war veterans' paper The National Tribune, in December, 1880. The National Tribune is now called The Stars and Stripes. This article was reprinted in the Stars and Stripes December 21,1950. Here is the report of this phenomenal and most important heavenly message for us at this hour. Wesley Bradshaw wrote: The last time I ever saw Anthony Sherman was on the fourth of July 1859, in Independence Square. He was then ninety-nine years old, and becoming very feeble. But though so old, his dimming eyes rekindled as he gazed upon Independence Hall, which he came to visit once more.

MESSAGE DISCLOSED

"Let us go into the hall," he said. "I want to tell you of an incident of Washington's life-one which no one alive knows of except myself; and if you live, you will before long see it verified. Mark the prediction, you will see it verified." "From the opening of the Revolution we experienced all phases-of fortune, now good and now ill, one time victorious and another conquered. The darkest period we had, I think, was when Washington after several reverses, retreated to Valley Forge, where he resolved to pass the winter of 1777. Ah! I have often seen the tears coursing down our dear commander's care-worn cheeks, as he would be conversing with a confidential officer about the condition of his poor soldiers. You have doubtless heard the story of Washington's going to the thicket to pray. Well, it was not only true, but he used often to pray in secret for aid and comfort. And God brought us safely through the darkest days of tribulation." "One day, I remember it well, the chilly winds whistled through the leafless trees, though the sky was cloudless and the sun shone brightly. He remained in his quarters nearly all the afternoon, alone. When he came out I noticed that his face was a shade paler than usual, and there seemed to be something on his mind of more than ordinary importance. Returning just after dusk, he dispatched an orderly to the quarters of an officer, who was presently in attendance. After a preliminary conversation of about half an hour, Washington, gazing upon his companion with that strange look of dignity which he alone could command, said to

the latter:

AN UNINVITED GUEST

"I do not know whether it is owing to the anxiety of my mind, or what, but this afternoon, as I was sitting at this table engaged in preparing a dispatch, something in the apartment seemed to disturb me. Looking up, I beheld standing opposite me a singularly beautiful being. So astonished was I, for I had given strict orders not to be disturbed that it was some moments before I found language to inquire the cause of the visit. A second, a third, and even a fourth time did I repeat my question, but received no answer from my mysterious visitor except a slight raising of the eyes." "By this time I felt strange sensations spreading through me. I would have risen but the riveted gaze of the being before me rendered volition impossible. I assayed once more to speak, but my tongue had become useless, as if paralyzed. A new influence, mysterious, potent, irresistible, took possession of me. All I could do was to gaze steadily, vacantly at my unknown visitor." "Gradually the surrounding atmosphere seemed to fill with sensations, and grew luminous. Everything about me seemed to rarefy, the mysterious visitor also becoming more airy and yet more distinct to my sight than before. I began to feel as one dying, or rather to experience the sensations, which I have sometimes imagined, accompany death. I did not think, I did not reason, I did not move. All were alike impossible. I was only conscious of gazing fixedly, vacantly at my companion."

FIRST GREAT PERIL

"Presently I heard a voice saying, 'Son of the Republic, look and learn,' while at the same time my visitor extended an arm eastward. I now beheld a heavy white vapor at some distance rising fold upon fold. This gradually dissipated, and I looked upon a strange scene. Before me lay, spread out in one vast plain, all the countries of the world-Europe, Asia, Africa and America. I saw rolling and tossing between Europe and America the billows of the Atlantic, and between Asia and America lay the Pacific. 'Son of the Republic,' said the same mysterious voice as before, 'look and learn.' "At that moment I beheld a dark, shadowy being, like an angel, standing, or rather floating in mid-air, between Europe and America. Dipping water out of the ocean in the hollow of each hand, he sprinkled some upon America with his right hand, while with his left he cast some over Europe. Immediately a cloud arose from these countries, and joined - in mid-ocean. For awhile it remained stationary, and then it moved slowly westward, until it enveloped America in its murky folds. Sharp flashes of lightning gleamed through it at intervals, and I heard the smothered groans and cries of the American people.

SECOND GREAT PERIL

"A second time the angel dipped water from the ocean and sprinkled it out as before. The dark cloud was then drawn back to the ocean, in whose heaving billows it sank from view." "A third time I heard the mysterious voice saying, 'Son of the Republic, look and learn.' I cast my eyes upon America and beheld villages and towns and cities springing Up one after another until the whole land from the Atlantic to the Pacific was dotted with them. Again, I heard the mysterious voice say, 'Son of the Republic, the end of the century comes, look and learn." "And this time the dark shadowy angel turned his face southward. From Africa I saw an ill-omened specter approach our land. It flitted slowly and heavily over every town and city of the latter. The inhabitants presently set themselves in battle array against each other.

As I continued looking I saw a bright angel on whose brow rested a crown of light, on which was traced the word 'UNION.' He was bearing the American flag. He placed the flag between the divided nation and said, 'Remember, you are brethren.' "Instantly the inhabitants, casting down their weapons, became friends once more and united around the National Standard." "Again I heard the mysterious voice saying, 'Son of the Republic look and learn.' At this the dark, shadowy angel placed a trumpet to his mouth, and blew three distinct blasts; and taking water from the ocean, he sprinkled it upon Europe, Asia and Africa.

THIRD AND MOST FEARFUL PERIL

"Then my eyes beheld a fearful scene. From each of these continents arose thick black clouds that were soon joined into one. And throughout this mass there gleamed a dark red light by which I saw hordes of armed men. These men, moving with the cloud, marched by land and sailed by sea to America, which country was enveloped in the volume of cloud. And I dimly saw these vast armies devastate the whole country and ~ the villages, towns and cities which I had seen springing up." "As my ears listened to the thundering of the cannon, clashing of the swords, and the shouts and cries of millions in mortal combat, I again heard the mysterious voice saying, "Son of the Republic, look and learn." Where the voice had ceased, the dark shadowy angel placed his trumpet once more to his mouth, and blew a long and fearful blast."

HEAVEN INTERVENES

"Instantly a light as of a thousand suns shone down from above me, and pierced and broke into fragments the dark cloud which enveloped America. At the same moment the angel upon whose head still shown the word UNION, and who bore our national flag in one hand, and a sword in the other, descended from the heavens attended by, legions of white spirits. These immediately joined the inhabitants of America, who I perceived were well-nigh overcome, but who immediately taking courage again, closed up their broken ranks and renewed the battle." "Again, amid the fearful noise of the conflict I heard the mysterious voice saying, 'Son of the Republic, look and learn.' As the voice ceased the shadowy angel for the last time dipped water from the ocean and sprinkled it upon America. Instantly the dark cloud rolled back, together with the armies it had brought, leaving the inhabitants of the land victorious."

"Then once more, I beheld the villages, towns and cities springing up where I had seen them before, while the bright angel, planting the azure standard he had brought in the midst of them, cried with the loud voice: "While the stars remain, and the heaven send down dew upon the earth, so long shall the UNION last." And taking from his brow the crown on which blazoned the word 'UNION,' he placed it upon the Standard while the people, kneeling down, said 'Amen."

THE INTERPRETATION

The scene instantly began to fade and dissolve, and I, at last saw nothing but the rising, curling vapor I at first beheld. This also disappeared, and I found myself once more gazing upon the mysterious visitor, who, in the same voice I had heard before, said, 'Son of the Republic, what you have seen is thus interpreted; Three great perils will come upon the Republic. The most fearful for her is the third. But the whole world united shall not prevail against her. Let every child of the Republic learn to live for his God, his land, and UNION" With these words the vision vanished, and I started from my seat and felt that I had seen a vision wherein had been shown me the birth, the progress, and the destiny of the United States.'"

'Such, my friends," the venerable narrator concluded, were the words I heard from Washington's own lips, and America will do well to profit by them."

Compare that red bolded section with the last words of Orson Hyde, in his statement:

"When Justice is satisfied, and the blood of martyrs atoned for, the guardian angel of America will return to his station, resume his charge, and restore the Constitution of our country to the respect and veneration of the people; for it was given by the inspiration of our God."

_______________________________

Further, Columbus's statements about being led by the Spirit match closely the BoM reference from 2 Nephi. One of these statements by Columbus lends itself to a possible vision by Moroni, or at least some type of vision or dream.

Who can doubt that this fire was not merely mine, but also of the Holy Spirit who encouraged me with a radiance of marvelous illumination from his sacred Holy Scriptures, by a most clear and powerful testimony...urging me to press forward? Continually, without a moment's hesitation, the Scriptures urge me to press forward with great haste. (West and Kling, Libro de las profecas, 105)

I fell asleep, and heard a compassionate voice, saying, "O fool, and slow to believe and serve thy God, the God of every man! What more did He do for Moses or for David His servant than for thee? From thy birth He hath ever held thee in special charge. When He saw thee at man's estate, marvelously did He cause thy name to resound over the earth. The Indies, so rich a portion of the world, He gave thee for thine own, and thou hast divided them as it pleased thee. Of those barriers of the Ocean Sea, which were closed with such mighty chains, He hath given thee the keys. Thou was obeyed in so many lands, and thou has won noble fame from Christendom. What more did he do for the people of Israel, when He carried them out of Egypt; or for David, whom from a shepherd He raised to be king over Judea? Turn thou to Him and acknowledge thy faults; His mercy is infinite;...I heard all this as in a swoon, but I had no answer to give in definite words; so true, only to weep for my transgression. (Morison, Journals, 378)

In the name of the most Holy Trinity, who inspired me with the idea and afterward made it perfectly clear to me, that I could navigate and go to the Indies from Spain, by traversing the ocean westwardly. (Curtis, The Authentic Letters of Columbus, 193)

Our Lord made me the messenger of the new heaven and the new earth, of which he spoke in the Book of Revelation by St. John, after having spoken of it by the mouth of Isaiah; and he showed me the place where to find it. (Life, 50, 57n)

http://www.bellasion.org/texts/CColumbus1.html

[elguanteloko]

I am going to make only one post here, don't worry. All I am going to say is that you have to do some SERIOUS revisions to your worldview and to the history of what those people you seem to praise actually did. Many tyrants have heard voices, seen 'angels', claimed to be sent by spirits, etc. Don't be fooled by what people say so uncritically!

[Sevenbak]

I am going to make only one post here.

THANK YOU!

[Sevenbak]

I'm also going to add another here. This is supposedly a vision had by General McClellan, Leading commander of the Union Army, during the Civil War (the 2nd great tribulation recorded by Washington)

What's interesting about this account, is that it appears that Washington is now the angel giving the message. It actually makes sense to me, given Washington's role, his mission in life, etc. He was also one of only 4 of the founding fathers ordained a High Priest by Wilford Woodruff, in the St. George Temple, when all their work was done. (Columbus was another one of the 4, incidentally)

The Vision of General George McClellan

Closely related to George Washington's Vision, but not as well known is a vision given to General George B. McClellan, one of the generals who took part in the second peril against America.

The only source I know concerning this Vision is the Evening Courier of Portland, Maine. It carries a lengthy account of a vision purporting to be the General's own words. The General was alive at the time and could have reputed the account and demanded an immediate retraction if it were false!

General McClellan is not as well known as other military leaders, in America, but he did serve his country well, despite his faults and his disagreements with President Lincoln which eventually led to his removal from his Command. At the time of this vision, McClellan had gone to Washington, D.C. to take over the command of the United States Army. This being the third day since his arrival, he was working, at two o'clock at night, over the reports of scouts and checking his maps. Being weary from work he leaned his head on his arms on the table and fell asleep.

In about ten minutes the locked door suddenly opened, and in strode someone right up to him and in a voice of authority said: "General McClellan, do you sleep at your post? Rouse you, or ere it can be prevented, the foe will be in Washington.

The General then gives some details of his strange feelings. Seemingly suspended in infinite space from a hollow distance above him, he heard a voice. He started up - not really knowing whether he was awake or not. The walls of the room, with its furniture and other objects were no longer visible, but the maps covering the table were still before him. Then, he was gazing upon a living map of America from the Mississippi river to the Atlantic Ocean.

The General was unable to identify the being standing before him, only a vapor having the general outline of a man.

Then he looked at the mysterious map before him and was amazed to see the movements of the various troops and had a complete picture of the enemy's lines and distribution of forces. Being greatly elated, he felt he now knew what strategy to use to end the way speedily and victoriously.

But then the elation gave way to great apprehension, because on this moving map, he saw the enemy's soldiers moving to the very position he had intended to occupy in a few days. He then knew that the enemy was aware of his plan of attack.

Then the voice spoke again, "General McClellan, you have been betrayed. And had not God willed otherwise, ere the sun had set the Confederate flag would have waved above the Capitol and your own grave. But note what you see. Your time is short."

Noting the movement of troops of on the living map- he took his pencil and transferred their position to the paper map on his desk. Then McClellan was aware of the figure near becoming luminous with light and glory, bright as the noonday sun. Then raising his view he looked into the face of George Washington.

Sublime and dignified our first President looked upon the bewildered General and spoke the following: "General McClellan, while yet in the flesh, I beheld the birth of the American Republic. It was indeed a hard and bloody one, but God's blessing was upon the nation and therefore, though this, her first great struggle for existence, He sustained her and with His mighty had brought her out triumphantly. A century has not passed since then, and yet the child Republic has taken her position of peer with nations whose pages of history extend for ages into the past. She has, since those dark days, by the favor of God, greatly prospered. And how, by very reason of this prosperity, has been brought to her second great struggle. This if by far the most perilous ordeal she has; passing as she is from childhood to opening maturity, she is called on to accomplish that vast result, self-control, self rule, that in the future will place her in the van of power and civilization...

"But her mission will not then be finished for ere another century shall have gone by, the oppressors of the whole earth, hating and envying her exaltation, shall join themselves together and raise up their hands against her. But if she shall be found worthy of her high calling they shall surely be discomfited, and then will be ended her third and last great struggle for existence. Thenceforth shall the Republic go on, increasing in power and goodness, until he borders shall end only in the remotest corners of the earth, and the whole earth shall beneath her shadowing wing become a Universal Republic. Let her in her prosperity, however remember the Lord her God, her trust be always in him, and she shall never be confounded."

After this, Washington raised his hand over the General's Head in blessing and immediately a peal of thunder rumbled through space. McClellan awoke with a start and found himself in his room and spread out before him on the table were his maps.

In viewing the maps, he noticed a difference, for they were covered with marks, signs, and figures which he had made during the vision.

The General had to walk around the room to realize he was actually awake. Then, taking another look at the maps he found the markings still there.

Realizing this experience was Divinely given, he ordered his horse saddled and went from camp to camp ordering changes to be made, which were necessary to frustrate the enemy's planned offensive. The strategy was successful and prevented the City of Washington from being captured. The Confederate Army, at that time was so close that Abraham Lincoln sitting in the White House could hear the roar of Confederate artillery.

Thus the Union was saved and General McClellan concludes his account of his Vision with these words.:

"Our beloved, glorious Washington shall again rest quietly, sweetly in his tomb, until perhaps the end of the Prophetic Century approaches that is to bring the Republic to a third and final struggle, when he may once more laying aside the cerements of Mount Vernon, become a Messenger of Succor and Peace from the Great Ruler, who has all Nations of this Earth in His keeping.

"But the future is too vast for our comprehension; we are children of the present. When peace shall have folded her bright wings and settled our land the strange, unearthly map marked while the Spirit eyes of Washington looked down, shall be preserved among American Archives as a precious reminder to the American nation what in their second great struggle for existence, they owe to God and the Glorified Spirit of Washington. Verily the works of God are above the understanding of man!"

http://www.futurerevealed.com/christian/modern/mcclellan.htm

[Pahoran]

Sevenbak,

your US-centrism is charming, in the way a quaint, old-fashioned, romantic song, played on a 78-speed wind-up gramophone is charming.

The "old soldier" must have been very old, if he was capable of hearing and understanding something in 1777, and then was able to remember it and tell it to someone else, eighty-two years later!

As for McLellan: there are too many historical errors in that account to get them all. The only time during McLellan's time in command that even loosely matches your description was during Lee's invasion of Maryland. And McLellan did indeed have extra help that time, but it wasn't from Washington's ghost: a copy of Lee's battle orders fell into his hands. And even then, "tardy George" wasn't able to to turn that advantage into a decisive victory.

Regards,

Pahoran

[Sevenbak]

Sevenbak,

your US-centrism is charming, in the way a quaint, old-fashioned, romantic song, played on a 78-speed wind-up gramophone is charming.

The "old soldier" must have been very old, if he was capable of hearing and understanding something in 1777, and then was able to remember it and tell it to someone else, eighty-two years later!

As for McLellan: there are too many historical errors in that account to get them all. The only time during McLellan's time in command that even loosely matches your description was during Lee's invasion of Maryland. And McLellan did indeed have extra help that time, but it wasn't from Washington's ghost: a copy of Lee's battle orders fell into his hands. And even then, "tardy George" wasn't able to to turn that advantage into a decisive victory.

Regards,

Pahoran

My US-Centrism stems from countless statements and prophecies about this land, over and over and over, from our leaders about it's future prominence in the designs of God.

As to being an old fashioned romantic song... perhaps. I'm definitely old school.

I posted this because the 3rd great struggle that Washington and McLellan supposedly mention both match so closely what has been said over and over by the prophets. It stands out big time to me, the eerie similarities.

I tend to not be surprised by the Lord's interventions, if and when they happen.

As to McLellan getting Lee's order falling into his hands after his vision, wouldn't that match a validation or a fulfillment the law of witnesses? If I was McLellan, and military intelligence validated a heavenly vision, I would be a happy man.

[lostindc]

I had to come out of my lurking to ask some questions:

1) Is this from a chain e-mail much like my crazy in-laws like to send? Do I need to go to snopes?

2) When people such as George Washington have visions of the future why is technology always on a stand still. Meaning, why would visions in the future reflect weaponry, housing, clothing, etc of the current era?

[lostindc]

It appears these visions have been debunked:

http://www.snopes.com/history/american/vision.asp

[Anijen]

My US-Centrism stems from countless statements and prophecies about this land, over and over and over, from our leaders about it's future prominence in the designs of God.

As to being an old fashioned romantic song... perhaps. I'm definitely old school.

I posted this because the 3rd great struggle that Washington and McLellan supposedly mention both match so closely what has been said over and over by the prophets. It stands out big time to me, the eerie similarities.

I tend to not be surprised by the Lord's interventions, if and when they happen.

As to McLellan getting Lee's order falling into his hands after his vision, wouldn't that match a validation or a fulfillment the law of witnesses? If I was McLellan, and military intelligence validated a heavenly vision, I would be a happy man.

IIRC this has been disproved. Sorry Sevenbak.

edited to add that LDSindc beat me to it.

[Sevenbak]

IIRC this has been disproved. Sorry Sevenbak.

edited to add that LDSindc beat me to it.

While I find Snopes to be a really useful tool, I don't consider it infallible or without a non-Christian bias.

The founders are a couple of hippy types who work out of a motorhome in California, and are admitted atheists.

The documentation of the Washington vision is non-existannt, and goes back 150 years. That doesn't necessarily make it unfounded. It might, but to discount it out of hand, considering how many similar things were said by our own prophets is not something I'm prepared to do. I believe that truth clings to truth.

In fact, the truths presented in the "vision" account are so close to what is taught by the LDS, that the Washington story was published in at least 4 Church publications in the mid 1800's.