Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted July 19, 2010 Posted July 19, 2010 Ok. The "Church of Jesus Christ of Ladder Day Saints" implies belief in the doctrineof Joseph Smith. I see nothing wrong with that.Me either. Well except that it is Latter not Ladder. You might get Lehi's joke now.
thesometimesaint Posted July 19, 2010 Posted July 19, 2010 thews:Are you Catholic? Because ALL of Protestantism is a rejection of the Catholic Church.
thews Posted July 19, 2010 Posted July 19, 2010 thews:Are you Catholic? Because ALL of Protestantism is a rejection of the Catholic Church.No... I'm a Christian that subscribes to no other definition other than what the bible teaches. While you continue to attempt to blame-shift, why are yuo opposed to just being called a "Mormon" when someone asks you what religion you are? Is there shame in that?
LeSellers Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 No... I'm a Christian that subscribes to no other definition other than what the bible teaches.Wow!!! In fifty-six years of reading the Bible, I've never seen a definition of the term "Christian". Could you , please, show it to me?Lehi
thews Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 Wow!!! In fifty-six years of reading the Bible, I've never seen a definition of the term "Christian". Could you , please, show it to me?LehiYou ask a lot of questions Lehi and provide very few answers. A "Christian" is someone who places faith that the bible is of God and includes both the new and old Testament. What a "Mormon" is, is someone who places faith in the Mormon doctrine of Joseph Smith... what is so hard about this?
Nathair/|\ Posted July 20, 2010 Author Posted July 20, 2010 You ask a lot of questions Lehi and provide very few answers. A "Christian" is someone who places faith that the bible is of God and includes both the new and old Testament. What a "Mormon" is, is someone who places faith in the Mormon doctrine of Joseph Smith... what is so hard about this?Could you please cite book, chapter and verse for your definition? You know, of course, that "Christian" as classification was first used by non-Christians."Mormon" was a name first given to us by outsiders. also.Yours under the in-group oaks,Nathair /|\
thews Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 Could you please cite book, chapter and verse for your definition? You know, of course, that "Christian" as classification was first used by non-Christians."Mormon" was a name first given to us by outsiders. also.Yours under the in-group oaks,Nathair /|\I'm not going to argue with you Nathiar... call yourself what you wish, but if you place faith in Joseph Smith and his doctrine, you are a "Mormon" by definition, because that's what a "Mormon" is.
thews Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 Or not. You see, Judaism is not Christian because Jews (with the exception of messianic Jews) do not see Jesus as the definitively central figure in their faith.By contrast, Latter-day Saints, in common with other Christians, do.By that definition, there were no "Christians" prior to the Council of Nicea, since there was no recognised "New Testament" before that time. There weren't even any of the books that now make up the New Testament for at least 30 years after Jesus was crucified; were there any "Christians" alive then? Peter, James and John, perhaps? What about Matthew, Mark and Luke? Did Paul become a Christian after his conversion on the road to Damascus, or only after he wrote his first letters, so that he could then read them?Your absurdly bibliolatrous definition excludes the entire first generation of what all sane people regard as Christians. How daft is that, really? "Daft"... what is your point? LDS denotes belief in the doctrine of Joseph Smih and that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God... why does this have to be so wordy?I would say that a "Mormon" is a Christian who accepts the Restoration of the Gospel in these latter days, and is therefore a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. What's so hard about that?Regards,PahoranIt's not hard and what you said is exactly what I said... only with far fewer words to say the same thing. A "Mormon" or "Ladder Day Saint" defines what doctrine one subscribes to... that is my point, and that's to define Joseph Smtih as a prophet of God, as only "Mormons" or "Ladder Day Saints" believe.
LeSellers Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 First you saidI'm a Christian that subscribes to no other definition other than what the bible teaches. Then you claimed:A "Christian" is someone who places faith that the bible is of God and includes both the new and old Testament. So, we're still awaiting, breath bated, for the "definition ... the bible [sic] teaches." As I said earlier, I haven't ever seen this definition you claimed. I would really like to see it. It's also odd, because the word "bible" (whether capitalized or not) does not appear in the Bible itself. It specifically does not appear in the context of "both the old [sic] and new [sic] Testament [sic]", because, at the time the last book of the Bible (as you have it on your desk) was written, there was no Bible as you have it on your desk. I'd guess, based on nothing more than this fact (or "data point", if you prefer), that you're not going to be able to deliver on this promise, either. It seems you promise a lot more than you deliver. That's sad because, by failing to show us what you say you can, it makes it much more difficult to accept your arguments. Lehi
LeSellers Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 What a "Mormon" is, is someone who places faith in the Mormon doctrine of Joseph Smith... what is so hard about this?For me, it's very hard because, you see, there are at least two errors in this statement of yours. First, there are no doctrines of Joseph Smith. The doctrines he taught are the doctrines of Jesus Christ. Nothing he taught focused on anything or anyone else. Second, I am not a "Mormon", I'm a "Saint", a "Latter-day Saint", to be precise. I do not worship Mormon (nor Joseph Smith). I have been called and made covenants with Jesus Christ, His Father and Their Emissary, the Holy Ghost, in none of which covenants did the name of Mormon, nor that of Joseph Smith, arise. Lehi
Nathair/|\ Posted July 20, 2010 Author Posted July 20, 2010 For me, it's very hard because, you see, there are at least two errors in this statement of yours. First, there are no doctrines of Joseph Smith. The doctrines he taught are the doctrines of Jesus Christ. Nothing he taught focused on anything or anyone else. Second, I am not a "Mormon", I'm a "Saint", a "Latter-day Saint", to be precise. I do not worship Mormon (nor Joseph Smith). I have been called and made covenants with Jesus Christ, His Father and Their Emissary, the Holy Ghost, in none of which covenants did the name of Mormon, nor that of Joseph Smith, arise. LehiExactly, thank you.
Pahoran Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 "Daft"... what is your point? LDS denotes belief in the doctrine of Joseph Smih and that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God... why does this have to be so wordy?It's "daft" because you are the one who so enTHEWSiastically offered the following definition:A "Christian" is someone who places faith that the bible is of God and includes both the new and old Testament.Incidentally, it just so happens that we, Latter-day Saints (please note the spelling) do indeed acknowledge that the Bible, including the Old and New Testaments, is indeed "of God." By your definition that makes us Christians. But your definition is daft, because it excludes people who, by any rational (and therefore beyond your comprehension) measure were not only Christians, but possibly the Christians, par excellence.It's not hard and what you said is exactly what I said... only with far fewer words to say the same thing. A "Mormon" or "Ladder Day Saint" defines what doctrine one subscribes to... that is my point, and that's to define Joseph Smtih as a prophet of God, as only "Mormons" or "Ladder Day Saints" believe.Thews, if that "ladder" is supposed to offend someone, it fails. It only makes you look illiterate. Or, if you prefer, illiderate.And if you think your definition is the same as mine, then why not use it? Is it because you can't bring yourself to admit that we are, in fact, Christians?Regards,Pahoran
coolrok7 Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 For the record. Note this LDS Church advertisement from a past Reader
Lightbearer Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 How do you all feel about the term "Mormon Church" or the members being called "Mormons?"Personally I am uncomfortable with the use of the term "Mormon Church" because it implies to me that we worship MormonWhile I prefer to be called a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I am not offended or uncomfortable with the use of the term "Mormon Church." In fact I sometimes add "commonly called the Mormon Church" when I am telling others what Church I belong to... it helps when their eyes glaze over and I realize that they have no clue what Church I am talking about. I prefer not to be classified as just "another christian church" because my beliefs are distinctive and it is the restored Gospel of Jesus Christ. I do not fear someone thinking I worship Mormon or Joseph Smith or anyone else, because when I use the term it is always in conjunction with the official name which is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and I point out we get the nickname "Mormons" because of our belief in the Book of Mormon another testament of Jesus Christ as another book of scripture and the keystone of our religion.
thatjimguy Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 Well , the Lutherans don't worship Martin Luther right? I don't sweat that much.
selek Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 For my own purposes, it depends upon the audience.For ease of recognition and basic understanding, I simply tell them I'm "Mormon".For ease of typing in conversations in which the context is understood, I go with "Mormon Church".Where precise or accurate detail is required, I go with Latter-day Saint and "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints"- though I once had to go with "La Inglesia de Jesu Cristo de Los Santos de Los Ultimos Dios"- and still got lost.I, for one, wear the "Mormon" badge with pride.Like "Yankee", it was originally a slur- one which we took and made our own.
handys003 Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 No big deal to me. Words are only as powerful as you give them to become.
LeSellers Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 REPOSTthews seems to have forgotten about this. I have not.This is a reissuance of my call for reference (CFR) that the Bible defines "Christian". First you saidI'm a Christian that subscribes to no other definition other than what the bible teaches. Then you claimed:A "Christian" is someone who places faith that the bible is of God and includes both the new and old Testament. So, we're still awaiting, breath bated, for the "definition ... the bible [sic] teaches." As I said earlier, I haven't ever seen this definition you claimed. I would really like to see it. It's also odd, because the word "bible" (whether capitalized or not) does not appear in the Bible itself. It specifically does not appear in the context of "both the old [sic] and new [sic] Testament [sic]", because, at the time the last book of the Bible (as you have it on your desk) was written, there was no Bible as you have it on your desk. I'd guess, based on nothing more than this fact (or "data point", if you prefer), that you're not going to be able to deliver on this promise, either. It seems you promise a lot more than you deliver. That's sad because, by failing to show us what you say you can, it makes it much more difficult to accept your arguments. Lehi
Nathair/|\ Posted July 21, 2010 Author Posted July 21, 2010 Further, should there be a name that includes us and other groups (ie. CoC, FLDS) that trace their beliefs to Joseph Smith and the Restoration? If so, what should it be?
John Larsen Posted July 21, 2010 Posted July 21, 2010 Further, should there be a name that includes us and other groups (ie. CoC, FLDS) that trace their beliefs to Joseph Smith and the Restoration? If so, what should it be?I think the term Mormon is rightfully designated to any people who accept the Book of Mormon as scripture.
Pahoran Posted July 21, 2010 Posted July 21, 2010 I think the term Mormon is rightfully designated to any people who accept the Book of Mormon as scripture.Well, that counts the Reorgs out.Regards,Pahoran
Pahoran Posted July 21, 2010 Posted July 21, 2010 REPOSTthews seems to have forgotten about this. I have not.This is a reissuance of my call for reference (CFR) that the Bible defines "Christian". Lehi,I don't think Thews is very enTHEWSiastic about answering calls for references. Maybe he thinks they are beneath his awful dignity.Or maybe he's just trying to see how many he can default on in one week. Maybe someone's running a sweep, where people bet on how many he can rack up.Regards,Pahoran
John Larsen Posted July 21, 2010 Posted July 21, 2010 Well, that counts the Reorgs out.Regards,PahoranSome of them. And way to throw in a term they find offensive on a thread about offensive terms towards LDS. Good job.
Pahoran Posted July 21, 2010 Posted July 21, 2010 Some of them. And way to throw in a term they find offensive on a thread about offensive terms towards LDS. Good job.Your faux indignation might mean something if any of the maligned Reorgs showed up to complain. Uncle Dale never complained about the term.Regards,Pahoran
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