Atonement Theory

[LeSellers]

The words redeem and ransom are often used together.

That's because they're essentially synonymous.

To redeem means to buy back an obligation one has taken on himself. As to redeem a coupon. The issuer made an offer, which, if the user follows the rules, the issuer will pay the face value (plus an administrative fee) to redeem it.

To ransom is to pay the price to rescue a hostage.

In our case, our Redeemer pays the price required to rescue us when we sold ourselves into the slavery of sin. We, once hostages, become free. We created a debt, and He redeems us from our sin.

Lehi

[mercyngrace]

I think that in addition to contemplating our own sinfulness, we should be ever mindful of our worth. I think there is some value in contemplating the "awful arithmetic of the Atonement."

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Lamanite

I think focusing exclusively on being the cause of His suffering can lead us to a place where we we feel so unworthy of His sacrifice that we spend our lives trying to earn salvation as if somehow we could ease a burden already borne. It can foster a cycle of despair since no matter what we do, we can't perfect ourselves. After all we do, it is still by grace that we are saved.

There came a point in my life where I stopped trying to earn salvation and instead, decided to simply be grateful for it. I began to bask in the light of His love and that has made all the difference. Being aware of my sinfulness only showed me my desperate need. Being aware of His love changed my heart.

[Lamanite]

I think focusing exclusively on being the cause of His suffering can lead us to a place where we we feel so unworthy of His sacrifice that we spend our lives trying to earn salvation as if somehow we could ease a burden already borne. It can foster a cycle of despair since no matter what we do, we can't perfect ourselves. After all we do, it is still by grace that we are saved.

There came a point in my life where I stopped trying to earn salvation and instead, decided to simply be grateful for it. I began to bask in the light of His love and that has made all the difference. Being aware of my sinfulness only showed me my desperate need. Being aware of His love changed my heart.

I can't find anything to take issue with in your post. Well said.

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Lamanite

[Lamanite]

Is God the source of justice and mercy, or do they exist as independent laws of the universe?

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Lamanite

[mercyngrace]

Is God the source of justice and mercy, or do they exist as independent laws of the universe?

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Lamanite

Independent.

"God would cease to be God"

[Lamanite]

Independent.

"God would cease to be God"

So do you think that these laws are sentient? Are they self aware? Does Justice know that it may demand satisfaction? Does Mercy know it has a right to be satisfied? What would these laws do if the Savior had not satisfied their demands and rights?

Are these laws similar to other universal laws like gravity, electromagnetism, wave propogation et al. ?

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Lamanite

[mercyngrace]

So do you think that these laws are sentient? Are they self aware? Does Justice know that it may demand satisfaction? Does Mercy know it has a right to be satisfied? What would these laws do if the Savior had not satisfied their demands and rights?

Are these laws similar to other universal laws like gravity, electromagnetism, wave propogation et al. ?

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Lamanite

You wouldn't be asking me those questions if you'd read what I sent you...

Laws of group dynamics. (i.e. principles governing the processes of a group of two or more people who are connected by a social relationship)

[Lamanite]

You wouldn't be asking me those questions if you'd read what I sent you...

Laws of group dynamics. (i.e. principles governing the processes of a group of two or more people who are connected by a social relationship)

I was kind of hoping to zero in on the idea that these laws are independent and immutable. Or one could ask; What would the consequence be if the Savior didn't satisfy mercy and justice? What would be the universal consequence?

In my mind, I can't imagine a case where one could disobey any of the laws of the universe. One could attempt to disobey gravity, but if one takes the mental experiment far enough, the end result is that disobedience is impossible. (And I know we don't fully understand all the laws of physics, but there is an implied boundary that God is also subject to and even He is apparently incapable of breaking these rules. I assert that all He is capable of is the attempt at breaking the rules.)

Thoughts?

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Lamanite