Jesus Christ as the Father

[Molloch]

What you think that A=B? Or that A=C. Can Jesus by himself = D (the Godhead). No? Please explain. If you can't I take that as an admission that my point stands. Nothing like waving a hand.

I consider them to all be the exact same. I say that because I believe God to be omnipresent, and I see no noticeable difference between them. For instance I don't see that god the father has any kind of power that jesus or the holy spirit do not have.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I consider them to all be the exact same. I say that because I believe God to be omnipresent, and I see no noticeable difference between them. For instance I don't see that god the father has any kind of power that jesus or the holy spirit do not have.

So Jesus is the same as God the Father and the HG is the same as Jesus? I am fine if you want to believe that. BUt the bible makes 0 refernce to any of that supposed biblical doctrine. Remember that God the Father was higher than Jesus as Jesus always had to submit his will to teh Father's that denotes that they are not the same in all things. Christ has a physical body. Does the Father have one as well as the HG?

Were does the bible say that Jesus nad the HG are they same. And if they are all the same why have 3 distinct persons?

So you think that there are 3 paralel lines that don't ever intersect but that touch at every point but are seperate? So they all look like the same line all do the same thing and all look the same but there are 3 adn you really can't tell that there are 3 only that you assert that there are 3.

[Molloch]

So Jesus is the same as God the Father and the HG is the same as Jesus? I am fine if you want to believe that. BUt the bible makes 0 refernce to any of that supposed biblical doctrine.

Were does the bible say that Jesus nad the HG are they same. And if they are all the same why have 3 distinct persons?

So you think that there are 3 paralel lines that don't ever intersect but that touch at every point but are seperate? So they all look like the same line all do the same thing and all look the same but there are 3 adn you really can't tell that there are 3 only that you assert that there are 3.

Well jesus certainly claimed to be God in the bible, but no I don't think of three parallel lines, I would say there is just one line. That goes back to me believing God is omnipresent.

[volgadon]

I understand that answer.

It seems weird that Jesus would echo words from the Father like that. It approaches a feeling of deception. But I'm not God so I can't dictate how things should be done.

That was how messengers in the ancient world acted. If you want an example, try Isaiah 36:13-20.

[Vance]

It seems weird that Jesus would echo words from the Father like that. It approaches a feeling of deception. But I'm not God so I can't dictate how things should be done.

I can understand that.

To me, it shows that Jesus/Jehovah/the Son has more authority (and unity) with the Father than a mere messenger.

[Vance]

Well jesus certainly claimed to be God in the bible, but no I don't think of three parallel lines, I would say there is just one line. That goes back to me believing God is omnipresent.

He also never claimed to be 1) the Father, 2) the supreme God, 3) omnipresent, 4) the same being as the Father, to mention a few.

Can two (or three) separate beings be omnipresent?

[Vance]

Oh boy. I've gone and gotten myself into an argument with the local crazy.

So rather than answer my questions or present sound argumentation, you resort to ad hominem. Is that the best you can do?

Way to completely miss the whole point of my posts.

Which is what? That God is omnipresent? And that to you, the words of David have preeminence over the words of Jesus?

By the way vance, I am neither anti mormon, nor an evangelical.

Then tell us what you ARE!

[Vance]

John 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not THE FATHER WHICH HATH SENT HIM.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Well jesus certainly claimed to be God in the bible, but no I don't think of three parallel lines, I would say there is just one line. That goes back to me believing God is omnipresent.

Jesus did claim divinity. He claimed to be I am, or Jehovah. He never once claimed to be the Father or the HG. That seems to be what you think he claimed. That they are all interchangable. And this has nothing to do with omnipresence. It has to do with the fallacy of believing that 3 distinct persons can be metaphsyical or numerically one with out being metaphysically one or numerically one. IOW we are trying to force 3 poeple who are all divine or Gods to be one in a monotheistic sense. It just doesn't work. And I have shown why. And it is not some great mystery. Again you can beleive what you want. You are entightled to believe what ever you want to. If you wish to call it biblical, I just want support for that beleif.

Note: I know you did not personally claim it to be biblical but lots of others have.

[David T]

Personally, I think Mosiah 15 is the clearest definition of the Book of Mormon (and early D&C) usages of Father and Son.

1 And now Abinadi said unto them: I would that ye should understand that God himself shall come down among the children of men, and shall redeem his people.

2 And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Personally, I think Mosiah 15 is the clearest definition of the Book of Mormon (and early D&C) usages of Father and Son.

Son = The FleshFather = Eternal Spirit, conceived by the power of God Son + Father = One God, The God of Israel, the Great Jehovah. This is different than the standard usage we use today, which focuses on the titles pertaining two and applied to the three distinct personages of the Godhead, and not just aspects of Christ's nature.

D&C 130 re-defined and expanded the application of the terms for the Church in 1843.

So the "Holy Ghost" represents the omnipresence of God. According to the scripture you linked.

[David T]

So the "Holy Ghost" represents the omnipresence of God. According to the scripture you linked.

I believe so. I'd say The Holy Ghost stands as a representative for the omnipresent power of God manifest as delegated to His servants. Apart from some of his other duties, the Holy Ghost also appears to me to be sort of the one with responsibility over the Eternal Missionary Department. Accordingly, I wouldn't be surprised to find that even while He has some specific duties only He personally can perform, He also oversees much of His work carried out by delegation of authority.

Much how the President of the Church is responsible for, and hold the keys for, all Missionary work, but delegates specific area keys to Mission Presidents who then assign companionships of Missionaries to act as their respective representatives. On earth as it is in heaven...