The Book of Abraham and Egyptian Priesthood

[Olavarria]

Abraham 1:2-5

2)And, finding there was greater happiness and peace and rest for me, I sought for the blessings of the fathers, and the right whereunto I should be ordained to administer the same; having been myself a follower of righteousness, desiring also to be one who possessed great knowledge, and to be a greater follower of righteousness, and to possess a greater knowledge, and to be a father of many dations, a prince of peace, and desiring to receive instructions, and to keep the commandments of God, I became a rightful heir, a High Priest, holding the right belonging to the fathers.

3)It was conferred upon me from the fathers; it came down from the fathers, from the beginning of time, yea, even from the beginning, or before the foundation of the earth, down to the present time, even the right of the firstborn, or the first man, who is Adam, or first father, through the fathers unto me.

4)I sought for mine appointment unto the Priesthood according to the appointment of God unto the fathers concerning the seed.

5)My fathers, having turned from their righteousness, and from the holy commandments which the Lord their God had given unto them, unto the worshiping of the gods of the heathen, utterly refused to hearken to my voice;

Abraham 1:26

26)Pharaoh, being a righteous man, established his kingdom and judged his people wisely and justly all his days, seeking earnestly to imitate that order established by the fathers in the first generations, in the days of the first patriarchal reign, even in the reign of Adam, and also of Noah, his father, who blessed him with the bblessings of the earth, and with the blessings of wisdom, but cursed him as pertaining to the Priesthood.

27)Now, Pharaoh being of that lineage by which he could not have the right of Priesthood, notwithstanding the Pharaohs would fain claim it from Noah, through Ham, therefore my father was led away by their idolatry;

So, it is said that the first Egyptian king tried to imitate the patriarchal order established by father Adam and he claimed the priesthood through Noah. This imitation was so convincing that Terah became a follower of Pharoah's religion. This would mean that according to the Book of Abraham, Egyptian priesthood was a powerless imitation of true priesthood.

Looking at Fac3, the a Vignette from the Hor Book of Breathings from a tottally secular perspective we see the Osiris-Hor(the deceased, now divinized Egyptian priest) being taken by Lady Maat into the presence of Osiris.

[divinenature]

I'm not sure what you are cryptically trying to point out.

I just wanted to say this puzzles me. Why would God keep the priesthood from a righteous person? Why would he keep his gospel from a righteous person? Why would he allow them to have a false replica, but not the real deal?

Also, the Egyptian ban on the priesthood would have included Ephraim and Manassah.

This whole topic is very problematic to me.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

8. Thus, the solution to the puzzle is that Joseph's wife Asenath is the seventieth descendant of Jacob, being the daughter of Dinah.

Or course the issue is this

45 And Pharaoh called Joseph

[All-Seeing Eye]

Pedro believes that the vignette shows an imitative corruption of the temple ceremony... specifically, the very last part of it.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Pedro believes that the vignette shows an imitative corruption of the temple ceremony... specifically, the very last part of it.

I think that is one of the more interesting aspect of the ancient egyptian relgious beliefs and the LDS.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Oh crap, I deleted part of my post. Darn.

Here is the website again and the argument.

Here is the puzzle.

http://www.johnpratt.com/items/puzzles/jacob/jacob.html

Here is the answer

http://www.johnpratt.com/items/docs/lds/meridian/2000/puzzle_ans.html

With the relevant part.

8. Thus, the solution to the puzzle is that Joseph's wife Asenath is the seventieth descendant of Jacob, being the daughter of Dinah.

[divinenature]

Mola, thanks for the interesting links. Those would have been nice to have months ago when I was studying this.

Now I'm back to wondering why God would keep the gospel and priesthood from a righteous person/people. God purposefully decided that certain people would not be allowed to have it based on their birth. That sucks.

As for the temple ceremony. I'm curious why the Egyptians were able to keep a "corrupt" version of the modern LDS temple ritual, but the Hebrews were consigned to the Aaronic temple ceremonies. Help.

[Olavarria]

Abraham 1:2-5

2)And, finding there was greater happiness and peace and rest for me, I sought for the blessings of the fathers, and the right whereunto I should be ordained to administer the same; having been myself a follower of righteousness, desiring also to be one who possessed great knowledge, and to be a greater follower of righteousness, and to possess a greater knowledge, and to be a father of many dations, a prince of peace, and desiring to receive instructions, and to keep the commandments of God, I became a rightful heir, a High Priest, holding the right belonging to the fathers.

3)It was conferred upon me from the fathers; it came down from the fathers, from the beginning of time, yea, even from the beginning, or before the foundation of the earth, down to the present time, even the right of the firstborn, or the first man, who is Adam, or first father, through the fathers unto me.

4)I sought for mine appointment unto the Priesthood according to the appointment of God unto the fathers concerning the seed.

5)My fathers, having turned from their righteousness, and from the holy commandments which the Lord their God had given unto them, unto the worshiping of the gods of the heathen, utterly refused to hearken to my voice;

Abraham 1:26

26)Pharaoh, being a righteous man, established his kingdom and judged his people wisely and justly all his days, seeking earnestly to imitate that order established by the fathers in the first generations, in the days of the first patriarchal reign, even in the reign of Adam, and also of Noah, his father, who blessed him with the bblessings of the earth, and with the blessings of wisdom, but cursed him as pertaining to the Priesthood.

27)Now, Pharaoh being of that lineage by which he could not have the right of Priesthood, notwithstanding the Pharaohs would fain claim it from Noah, through Ham, therefore my father was led away by their idolatry;

So, it is said that the first Egyptian king tried to imitate the patriarchal order established by father Adam and he claimed the priesthood through Noah. This imitation was so convincing that Terah became a follower of Pharoah's religion. This would mean that according to the Book of Abraham, Egyptian priesthood was a powerless imitation of true priesthood.

Looking at Fac3, the a Vignette from the Hor Book of Breathings from a tottally secular perspective we see the Osiris-Hor(the deceased, now divinized Egyptian priest) being taken by Lady Maat into the presence of Osiris.

O [Osiris,] H

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Mola, thanks for the interesting links. Those would have been nice to have months ago when I was studying this.

Now I'm back to wondering why God would keep the gospel and priesthood from a righteous person/people. God purposefully decided that certain people would not be allowed to have it based on their birth. That sucks.

As for the temple ceremony. I'm curious why the Egyptians were able to keep a "corrupt" version of the modern LDS temple ritual, but the Hebrews were consigned to the Aaronic temple ceremonies. Help.

These are question I cannot answer. I think what it boils down to is that there are a lot of interesting connections but nothing in the way of solid answers.

I dont' think that God keeps the gospel away from good people. The priesthood on the other hand, that seems to bring up quite the debate.

Did God institute the priesthood ban? Some say yes, others argue no.

On thing is clear is that God did indeed forbid the egyptians from the preisthood. Perhaps the very fact that they imitated it, that act alone caused them to not have the oppertunity to have the real dea.? I don't really know .

[divinenature]

Pedro, thanks for adding that last post. Cool stuff! I'm fascinated!

Mola, you're right. I think we all have to find our own answers on that stuff.

[Olavarria]

Why would God keep the priesthood from a righteous person? Why would he keep his gospel from a righteous person? Why would he allow them to have a false replica, but not the real deal?

And I said unto him: I know that he loveth his children; nevertheless, I do not know the meaning of all things(1 Nephi 11:17).

[Olavarria]

bump

[handys003]

Mola, thanks for the interesting links. Those would have been nice to have months ago when I was studying this.

Now I'm back to wondering why God would keep the gospel and priesthood from a righteous person/people. God purposefully decided that certain people would not be allowed to have it based on their birth. That sucks.

As for the temple ceremony. I'm curious why the Egyptians were able to keep a "corrupt" version of the modern LDS temple ritual, but the Hebrews were consigned to the Aaronic temple ceremonies. Help.

1) The Lord did not keep the PH and proper ordinances away.The Melchizedek Priesthood was available to all at the time of Abraham. Abraham was instructed personally by Melchizedek himself. The people of Salem which Melchizedek governed were so righteous, and did proclaim the Lords ministry. It's the fact that many didn't want to learn, and ignored such except Abraham, and is possibly why the Lord made his covenants with him. However just like all generations they pass onto inequity. The lord took Melchizedek and Salem away for such transgressions were occurring that he felt the righteous should be taken away. The Hebrews are descendants of Abraham, and the tribes were once again blessed with the Aaronic PH to re-learn the basics of proper edification. It was back to square one in a sense to prepare for Christ who would bring the renewal of the MP again. However it was rejected by the Hebrews again and thus we had to wait again for JS.

2) If those who did not get a chance for such PH then it was made available again in the spirit world.

[Glenn101]

I'm not sure what you are cryptically trying to point out.

I just wanted to say this puzzles me. Why would God keep the priesthood from a righteous person? Why would he keep his gospel from a righteous person? Why would he allow them to have a false replica, but not the real deal?

Also, the Egyptian ban on the priesthood would have included Ephraim and Manassah.

This whole topic is very problematic to me.

Why did God remove the priesthood from among the children of Israel in general and make the Levites the only tribe to hold the priesthood? Were the Levites the only righteous people in Israel? That ban was problematic for some of the children of Israel and caused a confrontation, which had some rather drastic consequences for those who decided to confront Moses on the issue.

Glenn

[Glenn101]

Pedro believes that the vignette shows an imitative corruption of the temple ceremony... specifically, the very last part of it.

There is a thread in the "Pundit" forum where some Bible scholars are quoted as claiming that some portions of the Old Testament show clear evidence of borrowing from some Egyptian documents. However, if the God of the Old testament is the one true God (and I aver that He is) then it would follow that those Egyptian documents that were referenced as influencing some of the Old Testament texts were actually referencing more ancient documents themselves and they and the Old Testament documents in question have a common provenance.

The Sumerians had legends/myths/stories about a major flood which some scholars have argued are the source for the Old Testament flood story because the Sumerian legends predate the Old Testament texts. However, the same reasoning applies to the provenance for the Sumerian flood stories and the Genesis story of Noah.

Glenn

[divinenature]

1) The Lord did not keep the PH and proper ordinances away.The Melchizedek Priesthood was available to all at the time of Abraham. Abraham was instructed personally by Melchizedek himself. The people of Salem which Melchizedek governed were so righteous, and did proclaim the Lords ministry. It's the fact that many didn't want to learn, and ignored such except Abraham, and is possibly why the Lord made his covenants with him. However just like all generations they pass onto inequity. The lord took Melchizedek and Salem away for such transgressions were occurring that he felt the righteous should be taken away. The Hebrews are descendants of Abraham, and the tribes were once again blessed with the Aaronic PH to re-learn the basics of proper edification. It was back to square one in a sense to prepare for Christ who would bring the renewal of the MP again. However it was rejected by the Hebrews again and thus we had to wait again for JS.

2) If those who did not get a chance for such PH then it was made available again in the spirit world.

According to the OT and LDS belief the Lord did keep the PH away from people. Very much so. I was talking about the Egyptians after the flood the BoA speaks of. Reading from BoA makes it sound like the "righteous" pharoah did very much want the gospel and the PH, but it was withheld from him.

Oh, and the Gospel was not taught to everyone. They withheld it from the people of Canaan (Moses 7:12).

[divinenature]

Why did God remove the priesthood from among the children of Israel in general and make the Levites the only tribe to hold the priesthood? Were the Levites the only righteous people in Israel? That ban was problematic for some of the children of Israel and caused a confrontation, which had some rather drastic consequences for those who decided to confront Moses on the issue.

Glenn

My LDS understanding has always been that the Hebrews were not righteous enough to have the MPH. Isn't that how it is taught? According to JS, the children of Isreal were cursed by God and the law was given under Aaron to pour out judgements and destruction.

I think a lot of things attributed to God in the OT, are not actually of God (genocide, rape, murder, etc).

[handys003]

According to the OT and LDS belief the Lord did keep the PH away from people. Very much so. I was talking about the Egyptians after the flood the BoA speaks of. Reading from BoA makes it sound like the "righteous" Pharaoh did very much want the gospel and the PH, but it was withheld from him.

Oh, and the Gospel was not taught to everyone. They withheld it from the people of Canaan (Moses 7:12).

Actually in chronological and genealogical time lines Enoch son of Jared as depicted in Moses 7:12 was before the great flood and before Melchizedek. Melchizedek was during the time of Abraham and the Egyptians. They all had the opportunity for PH.

D&C 107: 1-7

1 There are, in the church, two ^apriesthoods, namely, the Melchizedek and ^bAaronic, including the Levitical Priesthood.

2 Why the first is called the ^aMelchizedek Priesthood is because ^bMelchizedek was such a great high priest.

3 Before his day it was called the ^aHoly Priesthood, after the ^b of the Son of God.

4 But out of ^arespect or ^b to the name of the Supreme Being, to avoid the too frequent repetition of his name, they, the church, in ancient days, called that priesthood after Melchizedek, or the Melchizedek Priesthood.

5 All other authorities or offices in the church are ^a to this priesthood.

6 But there are two divisions or grand heads

[divinenature]

Actually in chronological and genealogical time lines Enoch son of Jared as depicted in Moses 7:12 was before the great flood and before Melchizedek. Melchizedek was during the time of Abraham and the Egyptians. They all had the opportunity for PH.

Who are the "they all" who had access to the MPH? I feel we may be speaking past eachother, I am not sure. When did the Egyptians have access to the "true gospel & MPH?" Did the Canaanites and people of other lands?

My Moses 7:12 reference was to address your comment that the Lord didn't keep his gospel/PH away from people. Maybe that isn't what you meant, but I thought it was. I wasn't trying to say that it was after the flood, sorry for the confusion.

[handys003]

Who are the "they all" who had access to the MPH? I feel we may be speaking past each other, I am not sure. When did the Egyptians have access to the "true gospel & MPH?" Did the Canaanites and people of other lands?

My Moses 7:12 reference was to address your comment that the Lord didn't keep his gospel/PH away from people. Maybe that isn't what you meant, but I thought it was. I wasn't trying to say that it was after the flood, sorry for the confusion.

Well I may seem to generalize when I'm talking all. However we don't have much to go on about Melchizedek other than I quoted above and what is said in Genesis about him. According to LDS teachings Melchizedek was so righteous and Abraham paid tithes to him. We also look at the book of Abraham. in it Abraham says:

Abr 1:2

2 And, finding there was greater ^ahappiness and peace and rest for me, I sought for the blessings of the fathers, and the right whereunto I should be ordained to administer the same; having been myself a follower of ^brighteousness, desiring also to be one who possessed great ^cknowledge, and to be a greater follower of righteousness, and to possess a greater knowledge, and to be a father of many ^dnations, a prince of peace, and ^edesiring to receive instructions, and to keep the commandments of God, I became a rightful heir, a ^fHigh Priest, holding the right belonging to the fathers.

Abraham denoting becoming heir of High priest which is the order of Melchizedek. Later on as we read in scriptures:

Abr 1: 6-8

For their ^ahearts were set to do ^bevil, and were wholly turned to the god of ^cElkenah, and the god of Libnah, and the god of Mahmackrah, and the god of Korash, and the god of Pharaoh, king of Egypt; 7 Therefore they turned their hearts to the sacrifice of the ^aheathen in offering up their children unto these dumb idols, and hearkened not unto my voice, but endeavored to take away my ^b by the hand of the priest of Elkenah. The priest of Elkenah was also the priest of Pharaoh. 8 Now, at this time it was the custom of the priest of Pharaoh, the king of Egypt, to offer up upon the altar which was built in the land of Chaldea, for the offering unto these strange gods, men, women, and children.

Abraham was descibing the wicked and corrupt practices of the Egyptians. We then see Jehovah rescuing Abraham and placing the blessings of the PH and to minister.

Abr 1:17-18

17 And this because they have turned their ^hearts away from me, to worship the god of Elkenah, and the god of Libnah, and the god of Mahmackrah, and the god of Korash, and the god of Pharaoh, king of Egypt; therefore I have come down to ^b them, and to destroy him who hath lifted up his hand against thee, Abraham, my son, to take away thy life. 18 Behold, I will lead thee by my hand, and I will take thee, to put upon thee my name, even the Priesthood of thy father, and my power shall be over thee.

As evident the Lord has said the Egyptians had turned their hearts away from him is apparent they new before the PH. Thus Abraham was to have power over the Egyptians and to re-minister. This is evident by the next chapter to other tribes.

Abr 2:9-11

9 And I will make of thee a great ^Nation, and I will ^b thee above measure, and make thy name great among all nations, and thou shalt be a blessing unto thy seed after thee, that in their hands they shall bear this ministry and ^c unto all nations; 10 And I will ^abless them through thy name; for as many as receive this ^b shall be called after thy ^c, and shall be accounted thy ^d, and shall rise up and bless thee, as their ^e; 11 And I will ^a<A title="TG Israel, Blessings of." href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/abr/abr/2/11a" type=B mark="a">bless them that bless thee, and ^bcurse them that curse thee; and in thee (that is, in thy Priesthood) and in thy ^cseed (that is, thy Priesthood), for I give unto thee a promise that this ^dright shall continue in thee, and in thy seed after thee (that is to say, the literal seed, or the seed of the body) shall all the families of the earth be blessed, even with the blessings of the Gospel, which are the blessings of salvation, even of life eternal.

we see that the Lord has instructed Abraham to teach after the order of High priest (Melchizedek) to all nations. All who accept will be blessed, and all those who rejected will be cursed. Therefore as I previously stated. The order of Melchizedek was given to all through both Melchizedek down through Abraham to all others. The Egyptians were once edified in such, but rejected as did the later Hebrews. Who then had to be re-instructed as did all nations later on.

[Olavarria]

Didnt mean to start a "blacks and the priesthood" thread.

Ive reworked the OP into a blog post entitled: "The Book of Abraham and Egyptian Religion".

[divinenature]

Okay, I think I understand more where your thought train is going.

My question is why, if the pharaoh was righteous, did the Lord curse him from the priesthood?

Abraham 1:26-27

26 Pharaoh, being a righteous man, established his kingdom and judged his people wisely and justly all his days, seeking earnestly to imitate that order established by the fathers in the first generations, in the days of the first patriarchal reign, even in the reign of Adam, and also of Noah, his father, who blessed him with the blessings of the earth, and with the blessings of wisdom, but cursed him as pertaining to the Priesthood.

27 Now, Pharaoh being of that lineage by which he could not have the right of Priesthood, notwithstanding the Pharaohs would fain claim it from Noah, through Ham, therefore my father was led away by their idolatry;

[Flyonthewall]

Wasn't the priesthood handed down to the first born son? Therefore excluding any but the firstborn son from holding the priesthood, no matter how righteous they were?

3 It was conferred upon me from the fathers; it came down from the fathers, from the beginning of time, yea, even from the beginning, or before the foundation of the earth, down to the present time, even the right of the firstborn, or the first man, who is Adam, or first father, through the fathers unto me.

[divinenature]

Didnt mean to start a "blacks and the priesthood" thread.

Ive reworked the OP into a blog post entitled: "The Book of Abraham and Egyptian Religion".

Actually, we were talking about Egyptians and the priesthood. Sorry if that was not on topic enough.

My question is this. Why did the Egyptians know so much sacred temple stuff if they were unable to have the priesthood? Where did they get their information? That confuses me.

[handys003]

Okay, I think I understand more where your thought train is going.

My question is why, if the pharaoh was righteous, did the Lord curse him from the priesthood?

Okay now I see where you are going. That clarifies it for me what your pointing out in scriptures. I think Pedro thinks were derailing his thread. Sorry Pedro not trying to do such.

In response to your question Pharaoh wasn't as righteous as you might think.

Abr 1:6-8

6 For their ^ahearts were set to do ^bevil, and were wholly turned to the god of ^cElkenah, and the god of Libnah, and the god of Mahmackrah, and the god of Korash, and the god of Pharaoh, king of Egypt;

7 Therefore they turned their hearts to the sacrifice of the ^aheathen in offering up their children unto these dumb idols, and hearkened not unto my voice, but endeavored to take away my ^b by the hand of the priest of Elkenah. The priest of Elkenah was also the priest of Pharaoh. 8 Now, at this time it was the custom of the priest of Pharaoh, the king of Egypt, to offer up upon the altar which was built in the land of Chaldea, for the offering unto these strange gods, men, women, and children.

Apparently Pharaoh was worshiping other Gods.

Abr 1:10-13

10 Even the thank-offering of a child did the ^apriest of Pharaoh offer upon the altar which stood by the hill called Potiphar