More Nephite Names

[Olavarria]

Hagoth is the name of an Nephite who constructed ships for colonizers who went to the land northword, see Alma 63:5. This man's name is attested on an Ammonite seal inscribed sometime in the eighth through the sixth centuries BC. The name is rendered Hgt(see here).

Zenephi is the name of a Nephite warrior, who was contemporary to Mormon, see Moroni 9:16. His name might be a form of Sneferu(see here). As I've noted in a previous post, K3-nfr.w, in Aramaic, is transliterated as Knufi(?????). So, Sneferu might be "Semetic-ized" as Snufi, which is close to Zenephi. Who knows?

[volgadon]

I see that Hgt could be phoenician, which would be interesting for a sea goer.

[Olavarria]

I see that Hgt could be phoenician, which would be interesting for a sea goer.

Makes ya wonder how Mulek and Co. got here.

[charity]

I am not saying that I disbelieve all you smart types who have studied and understand the subject, but it is really a leap of faith for me to see the Hg is Hagoth. Just thought I'd mention that. But I do appreciate your learning and willingness to share the product of your efforts.

[Olavarria]

I am not saying that I disbelieve all you smart types who have studied and understand the subject, but it is really a leap of faith for me to see the Hg is Hagoth. Just thought I mention that. But I do appreciate your learning and willingness ot share the product of your efforts.

Read the link and the seal says Itmk'l bn hgt. Itmk'l son of Hgt. The vowels were not written, kinda like the whole nhm thing.

[volgadon]

And in scholarly transliteration, t without the dot bbelow it is usualy a tav, which tends to be rendered into English as th.

[Olavarria]

And in scholarly transliteration, t without the dot bbelow it is usualy a tav, which tends to be rendered into English as th.

Nice. Thanks you. L'chaim!!

[Joseph Antley]

Zenephi is the name of a Nephite warrior, who was contemporary to Mormon, see Moroni 9:16. His name might be a form of Sneferu(see here). As I've noted in a previous post, K3-nfr.w, in Aramaic, is transliterated as Knufi(?????). So, Sneferu might be "Semetic-ized" as Snufi, which is close to Zenephi. Who knows?

Isn't it more likely that Zenephi is a prefixed form of Nephi?

[Olavarria]

Isn't it more likely that Zenephi is a prefixed form of Nephi?

Just as just as Nefer is to Sneferu. Sure, that's exactly my point.

[Greg66666]

While on this topic, could someone smarter than me comment on the name of Ammon, especially as found in Chapter 18 of Alma. I know that Ammon might come from the Egyptian of "Amon" or "Amun", etc., one of their gods. But coming across the Hebrew forms of "faith" or "faithfulness" which is "a-man" (accent on last syllable) and other related Hebrew terms, my question would be: do the Egyptian and the Hebrew words have any relation whatsoever to each other? I know etymology is a tricky game. I've read some speculation that since there was such cross-pollination of Israel and Egypt that "Amun" could have made the migration over to "a-man". And especially since Chapter 18 goes out of its way to say that Ammon was noted for faithfullness in :2, :10 and :35, it seems like such a good avenue of thought. Would the BOM have been deliberately shaping Chapter 18 so that the Egyptian and Hebrew concepts would be intermingling in such a way?

[Olavarria]

While on this topic, could someone smarter than me comment on the name of Ammon, especially as found in Chapter 18 of Alma. I know that Ammon might come from the Egyptian of "Amon" or "Amun", etc., one of their gods. But coming across the Hebrew forms of "faith" or "faithfulness" which is "a-man" (accent on last syllable) and other related Hebrew terms, my question would be: do the Egyptian and the Hebrew words have any relation whatsoever to each other? I know etymology is a tricky game. I've read some speculation that since there was such cross-pollination of Israel and Egypt that "Amun" could have made the migration over to "a-man". And especially since Chapter 18 goes out of its way to say that Ammon was noted for faithfullness in :2, :10 and :35, it seems like such a good avenue of thought. Would the BOM have been deliberately shaping Chapter 18 so that the Egyptian and Hebrew concepts would be intermingling in such a way?

Ammon/Amun is a perfectly good egyptian name. It is also in the OT.

[volgadon]

Folk etymology was very popular. Foreign names were given Hebrew twists.

[cinepro]

Hagoth is the name of an Nephite who constructed ships for colonizers who went to the land northword, see Alma 63:5. This man's name is attested on an Ammonite seal inscribed sometime in the eighth through the sixth centuries BC. The name is rendered Hgt(see here).

Zenephi is the name of a Nephite warrior, who was contemporary to Mormon, see Moroni 9:16. His name might be a form of Sneferu(see here). As I've noted in a previous post, K3-nfr.w, in Aramaic, is transliterated as Knufi(?????). So, Sneferu might be "Semetic-ized" as Snufi, which is close to Zenephi. Who knows?

"Hagoth" was 500+ years after the Lehites made landfall. "Zenephi" was ~1,000 years after Lehite landfall.

How do you suggest these names were transmitted from their Old World usage through centuries of New World culture? Did the brass plates also include a supplental copy of "Ammonite Baby Names For Dummies" that was preserved for Hagoth's parents to study?

And is there a point when the intermingled Nephite and Lamanite cultures might be expected to start using names from their new families and neighbors?

For example, suppose I have a son named "Barney" who becomes a man of great note. Years from now, an ancient Chinese seal is discovered from 200AD with the name "Barn-ho" which means "great leader". Would scholars be justified in assuming that I named my son "Barney" because of it's ancient Chinese usage, even if they couldn't show that I spoke Chinese or was even aware of its ancient usage?

[Joseph Antley]

Just as just as Nefer is to Sneferu. Sure, that's exactly my point.

Isn't Nephi a Hebrew name?

[volgadon]

For example, suppose I have a son named "Barney" who becomes a man of great note. Years from now, an ancient Chinese seal is discovered from 200AD with the name "Barn-ho" which means "great leader". Would scholars be justified in assuming that I named my son "Barney" because of it's ancient Chinese usage, even if they couldn't show that I spoke Chinese or was even aware of its ancient usage?

Apples and oranges.

[cinepro]

Apples and oranges.

Either way, can you explain the process by which Hagoth's parents and Zenephi's parents would have learned of these names if they had an ancient, Old World origin?

[Joseph Antley]

Either way, can you explain the process by which Hagoth's parents and Zenephi's parents would have learned of these names if they had an ancient, Old World origin?

Here in America, we have tons of names with ancient, Old World origins. Mine, for example.

[volgadon]

Either way, can you explain the process by which Hagoth's parents and Zenephi's parents would have learned of these names if they had an ancient, Old World origin?

I can hazard several guesses. Genealogical lists seems the most obvious. These were just as likely to be oral as written down. As good a source for baby names as any. We don't know the names of any of Lehi's or Saraiah's relatives and ancestors, nor do we know the same for Ishamel's family, we don't even know his sons' names. Of the entire Mulekite group, we know the names of only two.

These names could also be in the records brought over by Lehi, or they could be names of figures in songs or folktales preserved orally.

The possibilities are there.

[Olavarria]

"Hagoth" was 500+ years after the Lehites made landfall. "Zenephi" was ~1,000 years after Lehite landfall.

How do you suggest these names were transmitted from their Old World usage through centuries of New World culture? Did the brass plates also include a supplental copy of "Ammonite Baby Names For Dummies" that was preserved for Hagoth's parents to study?

Haha. No, silly. That would be as stupid as finding a "Florida cracker" with a 2000+yearold Hebrew name.....wait a minute .

And is there a point when the intermingled Nephite and Lamanite cultures might be expected to start using names from their new families and neighbors?

Of course, put what strata of society are we looking at?

For example, suppose I have a son named "Barney" who becomes a man of great note. Years from now, an ancient Chinese seal is discovered from 200AD with the name "Barn-ho" which means "great leader".Would scholars be justified in assuming that I named my son "Barney" because of it's ancient Chinese usage, even if they couldn't show that I spoke Chinese or was even aware of its ancient usage?[/

That is a really bad analogy.

[Olavarria]

Isn't Nephi a Hebrew name?

Is it?

John Gee makes a great argument for it's being Egyptian

[Olavarria]

Either way, can you explain the process by which Hagoth's parents and Zenephi's parents would have learned of these names if they had an ancient, Old World origin?

Probably the same way we get our ancient semetic names(Abraham,Joshua,etc), sacred texts.

[USU78]

Is it?

John Gee makes a great argument for it's being Egyptian

Or maybe yes: 2 Maccabees (1:36) ("And Neemias called this thing Naphthar, which is as much as to say, a cleansing: but many men call it Nephi.")

[Olavarria]

Or maybe yes: 2 Maccabees (1:36) ("And Neemias called this thing Naphthar, which is as much as to say, a cleansing: but many men call it Nephi.")

Yes, Lehi and Sariah named their son after a fuel.

[USU78]

Yes, Lehi and Sariah named their son after a fuel.

Hi, Sparky!

[Olavarria]

Hi, Sparky!

Meet my daughter, Gasolina