Revised mission of the Church stirs controversy.

[selek]

This barely comprehensible sentence is also possibly the most ludicrous thing ever posted on this board.

Except, of course, for the fact- I can't believe I'm saying this- that Frankenstein is correct.

Government can threaten, government can coerce, government can enslave- but they cannot remove your agency.

Even with a gun to your head, you can still choose to disobey.

Agency means we choose our actions- it does not mean we get to select the consequences we like best.

If you had a pistol to your head, and were told to renounce Christ or die- the choice is still yours.

[krose]

Wow, with all the whining about government "extortion" and such, one might think that people in the US don't have the right to vote, and have no representation.

[Vance]

You "free will" fanatics just don't learn anything from history. In times like these we must remember the word of the great beholders of democracy:

"A democracy can only exist once the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasury. From that moment on, the prudent majority should always vote for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury." -- Alexander Tytler

"The American Republic will endure, as long as politicians realize they can bribe the people with their own money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville

I am shocked that you would abuse these quotes so.

[Rob Osborn]

I wish everyone who is going to complain about our government and taxes would just stop, get there stuff together into a U-haul, and move the he## out of this country. Go live in Mexico! I happen to like this great and glorious country. I see no problem in honoring, obeying and sustaining the law. Under this country, I have the right to go wherever and whenever I want, I can say basically anything I want (without directly threatening something or someone) without any repurcusion, I can and do own multiple televisions/computers without cesorship to whatever I want to watch or view. I can wake up in the morning knowing that I am not really at risk for ravishing disease, hunger, or in fear of my life. I don't even own a gun, and don't need to either. Where the government lacks in help, I can generally find it through a literal plethora of non-profit organizations and churches. Are my taxes unbearable? No. Are any Americans taxes unbearable? No. Does the government force me to redistribute my wealth? No.

I can say all this stuff on this forum without the government even blinking an eye- they don't even care! I say-

God bless America

God bless America

God bless America!

[Droopy]

Droopy:

I have successfully done both for many years. I gratefully pay my tithes and offering, and at the same time pay my taxes. At least with my taxes I can drive on the roads, and have all the advantages of living in a modern industrial society. I'm not bragging I am well blessed, and pray to continue to be so.

1. Modern industrial society was not created by government. It was created by economically and socially free human beings in a rule of law governed society. Legitimate government's sole function is to provide the protection and guarantee of political, individual, and economic rights that is necessary for such to occur and be maintained.

2. Roads and other infrastructure have utterly nothing to do with the welfare state and its claims to legitimacy.

[Droopy]

I wish everyone who is going to complain about our government and taxes would just stop, get there stuff together into a U-haul, and move the he## out of this country. Go live in Mexico! I happen to like this great and glorious country. I see no problem in honoring, obeying and sustaining the law. Under this country, I have the right to go wherever and whenever I want, I can say basically anything I want (without directly threatening something or someone) without any repurcusion, I can and do own multiple televisions/computers without cesorship to whatever I want to watch or view. I can wake up in the morning knowing that I am not really at risk for ravishing disease, hunger, or in fear of my life. I don't even own a gun, and don't need to either. Where the government lacks in help, I can generally find it through a literal plethora of non-profit organizations and churches. Are my taxes unbearable? No. Are any Americans taxes unbearable? No. Does the government force me to redistribute my wealth? No.

I can say all this stuff on this forum without the government even blinking an eye- they don't even care! I say-

God bless America

God bless America

God bless America!

After a diversionary trek such as this into a strange region somewhere between utter irrelevance and point missing, a tall glass of ice cold egg nog is in order...

[charity]

I read through 3 pages, and I don't see what the fuss is. It is not HUGE news. We have always been supposed to take care of our families. We have always performed compassionate service. This is not a change.

[Droopy]

Wow, with all the whining about government "extortion" and such, one might think that people in the US don't have the right to vote, and have no representation.

You really do need to be much more well read and knowledgable in this subject area Krose. Bastiat would be an excellent place to start.

The Book of Mormon would be even better, as the political and cultural dynamics it examines from an inspired perspective were written for us, in our age, and in our context.

[Droopy]

I read through 3 pages, and I don't see what the fuss is. It is not HUGE news. We have always been supposed to take care of our families. We have always performed compassionate service. This is not a change.

Exactly correct. Its nothing more than a renewed emphasis.

[Lightbearer]

Actually I do not see this as a big "change" in policy, Church Welfare has always been an important aspect of the restored Gospel and a major concern to it's members. It has always fallen under the "Perfecting the Saints" category as far as I have seen it. I think the reason for the brining it to the forefront is because of the times we live in. One of the biggest economic recessions since the great depression of the 1930's is what we are currently experiencing in the U.S. and soon I think the world in general. I think this will be the "theme" of President Monson's presidency and it is not unexpected given the theme of most of his conference addresses over the years. Again proving that the Lord always calls the prophet which has special skills and understanding for the times they live in. But the idea that charitable service is a new "mission" for the Church is unfounded. In fact this concept is not new at all in the Church as indicated here:

(Mosiah 4:26-27) "And now, for the sake of these things which I have spoken unto you

[Mortal Man]

Even with a gun to your head, you can still choose to disobey.

Until they pull the trigger.

[Calm]

Except, of course, for the fact- I can't believe I'm saying this- that Frankenstein is correct.

Government can threaten, government can coerce, government can enslave- but they cannot remove your agency.

Even with a gun to your head, you can still choose to disobey.

Agency means we choose our actions- it does not mean we get to select the consequences we like best.

If you had a pistol to your head, and were told to renounce Christ or die- the choice is still yours.

Governments can and have drugged individuals though and that can remove one's internal ability to choose.