Suicide and Religion

[asbestosman]

This is a bit of a serious question, so let me start off with what this is not.

This is NOT about whether atheists or Mormons or Christians, or whever has a higher rate of suicide.

This is NOT about the suicide rate of Utah.

This is NOT about trying to provide evidence that one philosophy is truer or even more deseriable simply based on suicide rates.

This IS about whether a religious person who suffers depression might be helped by strengthening his faith.

This IS about how one helps a religious person cope with depression in hopes that suicide won't be considered.

I realize of course that professional help should be sought in such circumstances. What I'm looking for in particular is a discussion about whether religion is effective at all. I certainly do not think it is sufficient given that many believers apparently do take their own lives.

I don't wish to make this thread personal or even to raise concern. Indeed, I'm fairly healthy and happy in my life at the moment. Still, I wonder when I look around the world at all the difficulties many face and I'm reminded of my past struggles many years ago. It occurs to me that the belief that suicide would not be solution because I would be miserable in the afterlife provided some amount of deterrence--to a point. It also seems that after a certain point, one even stops caring about the afterlife and would be perfectly willing to self-destruct in the most permanent ways because one either feels that he is not worth it at all even to God, or something like that. In such a case I suppose the afterlife provides no deterrent. I have not considered what would be effective in such a case, and I suppose that is where professional help is required. Fortunately that has not been necessary in my own life.

Still, I do wonder a bit what with all the crazy stress that's happening presently around the world.

[cjwright]

In my experience whether religion or a belief in some sort of afterlife is a deterant when it comes to suicide is totally down to the individual. For some people it can be one of the factors that they have when they consider ending their life, but I have found that the most prominant deterant is how their suicide would effect their loved ones.

Depression and suicidal feelings are caused by any number of reasons, and are experienced by any and all types of people. I like your 'what this is not about' list because really none of those factors mean anything, it's about who you are and how you feeling in the situation you find your life in at that moment. The people who use those points either have no idea about suicidial feelings, or have an agenda to make their idea of life more acceptable than another, and it helps no one.

This IS about whether a religious person who suffers depression might be helped by strengthening his faith.

Like I've said above, this really does depend on the individual and what is causing their depression, for some it will, for some it won't.

This IS about how one helps a religious person cope with depression in hopes that suicide won't be considered.

You can help any person, not just a religious one, by the same means - give them support, let them talk about how they are feeling and do not judge them. If you bring up their religion in a way that makes them feel guilty for having those feelings of depression or suicide you will just make the matter worse, and are adding to the issue not helping them resolve it. Sometimes suicidal feelings have nothing to do with wanting to die, but actually wanting to end the situation they are in, but they only see that happening by ending their life. By being able to talk and explore options that they may not have considered, someone who is in a state of depression or distress can find other ways to cope that don't involve suicide.

I hope that has helped with your questions.

[thesometimesaint]

Use whatever tools are in your tool chest.

[The Nehor]

I had a very depressed friend who was LDS and he said that suicide wasn't an option as all his problems would just go with him.

[smac97]

We have previously discussed an article published in the American Journal of Epidemiology in which a study showed that active Latter-day Saints are seven times less likely to commit suicide (as compared to inactive Latter-day Saints).

We have also discussed this study which showed "an inverse association between suicide rates and religious commitment," (put another way: "higher levels of religiosity appear to be inversely associated with suicide").

-Smac

[Uncertain]

This is a bit of a serious question, so let me start off with what this is not.

This is NOT about whether atheists or Mormons or Christians, or whever has a higher rate of suicide.

This is NOT about the suicide rate of Utah.

This is NOT about trying to provide evidence that one philosophy is truer or even more deseriable simply based on suicide rates.

This IS about whether a religious person who suffers depression might be helped by strengthening his faith.

This IS about how one helps a religious person cope with depression in hopes that suicide won't be considered.

I realize of course that professional help should be sought in such circumstances. What I'm looking for in particular is a discussion about whether religion is effective at all. I certainly do not think it is sufficient given that many believers apparently do take their own lives.

I don't wish to make this thread personal or even to raise concern. Indeed, I'm fairly healthy and happy in my life at the moment. Still, I wonder when I look around the world at all the difficulties many face and I'm reminded of my past struggles many years ago. It occurs to me that the belief that suicide would not be solution because I would be miserable in the afterlife provided some amount of deterrence--to a point. It also seems that after a certain point, one even stops caring about the afterlife and would be perfectly willing to self-destruct in the most permanent ways because one either feels that he is not worth it at all even to God, or something like that. In such a case I suppose the afterlife provides no deterrent. I have not considered what would be effective in such a case, and I suppose that is where professional help is required. Fortunately that has not been necessary in my own life.

Still, I do wonder a bit what with all the crazy stress that's happening presently around the world.

Hi abestosman,

Well I for one think religion is for the most part a positive. For example having a supportive and nurturing support network is helpful when dealing with mental illnesses of all types. If a person is a committed member of a religious group this in many cases can act as a ready made support network. For that matter a properly trained religious authority figure would likely refer cases of significant mental illness to qualified professionals and in this way direct the suffer to assistance that they may not initiate on their own. So I think in the majority of cases strong religious belief is a positive. Now I can think of some situations where it might hurt depression sufferers. For example if someone for whatever reason cannot live up to the religion's standards this could perhaps lead to a decrease in self worth. But overall I think religious conviction is a net positive.

All the Best,

Uncertain

[Uncertain]

We have previously discussed an article published in the American Journal of Epidemiology in which a study showed that active Latter-day Saints are seven times less likely to commit suicide (as compared to inactive Latter-day Saints).

We have also discussed this study which showed "an inverse association between suicide rates and religious commitment," (put another way: "higher levels of religiosity appear to be inversely associated with suicide").

-Smac

Hi Smac,

I personally think religious conviction is a net positive when it comes to dealing with mental illness. But I would not take the conclusions of those studies to far. For example if a religion teaches that suicides will go to hell for forever. This will likely lead to a decrease in suicides for the given religion. It does not mean belonging to the given religion leads to a decrease in the frequency of depressed members. The extreme example would be a religion in which every member is depressed but none of them commit suicide because doing so will lead to hell.

All the Best,

Uncertain

[smac97]

Hi Smac,

I personally think religious conviction is a net positive when it comes to dealing with mental illness. But I would not take the conclusions of those studies to far. For example if a religion teaches that suicides will go to hell for forever. This will likely lead to a decrease in suicides for the given religion. It does not mean belonging to the given religion leads to a decrease in the frequency of depressed members. The extreme example would be a religion in which every member is depressed but none of them commit suicide because doing so will lead to hell.

All the Best,

Uncertain

I agree that statistics pertaining to suicidality are not readily interchangeable with stats pertaining to depression.

-Smac