volgadon Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 I do take it literally, but as for why and where, I don't know.
Nyal Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 As one who has personally witnessed his companion and his bicycle moving up in the air and over to avoid an imminent collision with an automobile, I can most assuredly testify that he does do that very thing.I would love to hear this story!
Tarski Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 Maybe because it was in the way????... you try climbing mountains.Which is harder; moving it or climbing it? I think a person with the power to move a mountain might have the power to climb it.It is as though someone said, I am old and can't climb that mountain so I will jump over it.
Tarski Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 Although I tend to believe it is a false myth that Ether believed, I don't think the reasons you give for it being false are too strong.As you know, we have next to zero written records from Mesoamerica in the time period of the Jaredites. Even if something catastrophic like this happened, we should not expect to find a written record of it (unless you count the BoM, of course).I was talking about the claim made above that Enoch also moved mountains. That would have been in the old world wouldn't it?
AndyOne Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 I find the BoM to be full of hyperbole in response to the New Testament. The ministry of pre-Christ Nephi is a prime example, he one-up'd all of the NT apostles combined. Knowledge about the rotation of the earth "of course, we know ..." Moving mountains, etc. All seem to be responsive to the text of the Bible. But that's just my opinion.
Sevenbak Posted April 21, 2009 Author Posted April 21, 2009 I would love to hear this story!That's pretty much it. We were cycling though a T intersection and a car was not stopping that should have been. It was a collision course that should have happened. But he was physically lifted up and out of the way. I've never before or since seen anything like it.We all know the promises to missionaries that angels will accompany them and "bear you up". Well, that took on a whole new meaning for both of us. I've always suspected he was promised in a blessing that he'd be safe in serving the Lord.
Nyal Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 That's pretty much it. We were cycling though a T intersection and a car was not stopping that should have been. It was a collision course that should have happened. But he was physically lifted up and out of the way. I've never before or since seen anything like it.We all know the promises to missionaries that angels will accompany them and "bear you up". Well, that took on a whole new meaning for both of us. I've always suspected he was promised in a blessing that he'd be safe in serving the Lord.Physically lifted? Can you describe the motion? what did the driver think of that?
Sevenbak Posted April 21, 2009 Author Posted April 21, 2009 I was talking about the claim made above that Enoch also moved mountains. That would have been in the old world wouldn't it?Enoch was before the flood, and before the dividing of the earth. There wasn't an "old world / new world" geography.
Jason Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 I find it surprising that some believing Mormons find the glowing stones the Brother of Jared had the Lord prepare perfectly believable but balk at the idea of his moving a mountain.Is there some scale of what miracles are possible and which aren't?
Sevenbak Posted April 21, 2009 Author Posted April 21, 2009 Physically lifted? Can you describe the motion? what did the driver think of that?The car never saw him or stopped. He and his bike were lifted up about 2 feet and over about 3, out of harms way.
volgadon Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 Which is harder; moving it or climbing it? I think a person with the power to move a mountain might have the power to climb it.It is as though someone said, I am old and can't climb that mountain so I will jump over it.Only if you assume he picked it up Atlas-like and carried it on his shoulders. Climbing mountains takes time and effort and is very hard to do if you have a mixed group which includes women, children and the elderly. That is one speculation. The other is defence.He wouldn't have had to move it far either.
Tarski Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 The car never saw him or stopped. He and his bike were lifted up about 2 feet and over about 3, out of harms way.Guess what; I don't trust your memory or perception and I don't believe it happened as you say. I also think that there are several devout Mormons here that will silently doubt it also.If an EV told you that he rebuked some Mormon missionaries and saw the evil spirits leave their bodies would you believe it?
Jason Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 Guess what; I don't trust your memory or perception and I don't believe it happened as you say.Big surprise.
Tarski Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 Only if you assume he picked it up Atlas-like and carried it on his shoulders. Climbing mountains takes time and effort and is very hard to do if you have a mixed group which includes women, children and the elderly. That is one speculation. The other is defence.He wouldn't have had to move it far either.If God is going to perform a miracle, why not just give the women and children the strength to climb? Why the overkill and the showing off?Let me ask this, if you were a pioneer and the women and children were having a hard time would you ask God to give them strength or would you ask him to just zap them to their destination star trek style? Why?
Jason Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 If God is going to perform a miracle, why not just give the women and children the strength to climb? Why the overkill and the showing off?Why did God part the Red Sea instead of just making everyone swim really, really well?Why doesn't He just appear on national tv right now and prove to everyone that He exists?
Sevenbak Posted April 21, 2009 Author Posted April 21, 2009 Guess what; I don't trust your memory or perception and I don't believe it happened as you say. I also think that there are several devout Mormons here that will silently doubt it also.If an EV told you that he rebuked some Mormon missionaries and saw the evil spirits leave their bodies would you believe it?You are the last one I would have expected to believe it. In fact, I probably shouldn't have even mentioned it, it being in the category of sacred things and pearls. But I thought it was relevant to this discussion.And just so you know, that experience was not as lasting and as faith building as the personal whisperings of the Holy Ghost to my mind, in another specific warning / danger situation, which I won't go into any further.The eyes are part of the flesh, but the spiritual memories that speak to the soul have a deeper impression. Just my 2 cents.
Sevenbak Posted April 21, 2009 Author Posted April 21, 2009 If God is going to perform a miracle, why not just give the women and children the strength to climb? Why the overkill and the showing off?Let me ask this, if you were a pioneer and the women and children were having a hard time would you ask God to give them strength or would you ask him to just zap them to their destination star trek style? Why?That's the 2nd time you've equated the moving of a mountain with showing off. Don't you acknowledge the words of Christ as stated in the NT promising power to move mountains as being greater than the base motivations you mention?
Tarski Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 That's the 2nd time you've equated the moving of a mountain with showing off. Don't you acknowledge the words of Christ as stated in the NT promising power to move mountains as being greater than the base motivations you mention?You are avoiding my questions.
Sevenbak Posted April 21, 2009 Author Posted April 21, 2009 Why did God part the Red Sea instead of just making everyone swim really, really well?Excellent comparison.Why doesn't He just appear on national tv right now and prove to everyone that He exists?Didn't Obama just have another press conference? Sorry couldn't resist.
Sevenbak Posted April 21, 2009 Author Posted April 21, 2009 You are avoiding my questions.I'm avoiding redundancy and people not taking Christ at his word.
Jason Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 To answer my own questions, God protects our free agency by requiring faith to precede a miracle.Think about it.
Sevenbak Posted April 21, 2009 Author Posted April 21, 2009 Why did God part the Red Sea instead of just making everyone swim really, really well?You got me thinking about this other reference.Jacob 4:6 ...and our faith becometh unshaken, insomuch that we truly can command in the name of Jesus and the very trees obey us, or the mountains, or the waves of the sea.
structurecop Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 Are you saying God doesn't move stuff around defying gravity and physics?Yes.As one who has personally witnessed his companion and his bicycle moving up in the air and over to avoid an imminent collision with an automobile, I can most assuredly testify that he does do that very thing.Your brain could have interpreted what actually happened as seeing your companion levitate on his bicycle. It is common for your brain to misinterpret incoming visual information. Not to make light of your sacred experience, but was E.T. anywhere in the vicinity?And no, I wasn't praying for it to move, I was cringing thinking my companion was a dead man. Oh me of little faith...So this anecdote has little to nothing to do with faith-based telekinesis.
Cold Steel Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 When it comes to removing mountains from their place, I really didn't expect all the derision. Things as spectacular as this do live on, either as myths or as holy writ, and in this case it appears to be the latter. Does it have the elements of a myth? Yes, but so does Moses parting the Red Sea and a host of other Old Testament mountains. Although the scriptures aren't perfect; they aren't inerrant, they are inspired records. The Lord unfolds the history and the future of men, and this is prophecy. I think it would be wrong to imagine a man raising a mountain like Yoda did in the Star Wars movie; but the priesthood has the power to act upon the elements. When a mountain is removed, I suspect its because the earth shakes and the foundations give. Even so, the Lord specifically mentioned the removing of mountains during his mortal ministry. I suspect that if a mountain was removed out of its place that he would know about it.As Macro said in I, Claudius, "that is the nature of miracles: to be unique."
Sevenbak Posted April 21, 2009 Author Posted April 21, 2009 Yes.Your brain could have interpreted what actually happened as seeing your companion levitate on his bicycle. It is common for your brain to misinterpret incoming visual information. Not to make light of your sacred experience, but was E.T. anywhere in the vicinity?So this anecdote has little to nothing to do with faith-based telekinesis.Barking up the wrong tree. My comp was aware of it happening, but didn't cause it. The incident was a cherished memory for us both.And no, as I've already stated, it didn't have anything to do with my faith. It was heaven sent protection, but not faith invoked prayer or priesthood.
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