Nephi & Jeremiah: The Weeping Prophets

[Sargon]

As a "humanities" elective for the degree I'm seeking, I'm taking a religion class that in part discusses Judaism, both classical and modern. Recently we discussed Jeremiah and the professor commented that in ancient Jewish culture it was socially acceptable for a man to weep and was not viewed as a weakness. In contrast, he mentioned that Greek culture definitely assigns a sort of weakness to weeping men.

Jeremiah 9:1

1 Oh that my head were waters, and mine eyes a fountain of tears, that I might weep day and night for the slain of the daughter of my people!

This had me thinking about Nephi, who was a contemporary of Jeremiah's in Jerusalem:

2 Nephi 33:3

3 But I, Nephi, have written what I have written, and I esteem it as of great worth, and especially unto my people. For I pray continually for them by day, and mine eyes water my pillow by night, because of them; and I cry unto my God in faith, and I know that he will hear my cry.

I thought it was neat how Nephi doesn't seem reluctant to say that he weeps at night for his people. This comes after Nephi, near the beginning of his record, tells us that he is "large in stature" and he chronicles his many manly accomplishments throughout their journey. Nephi seems to be a man of his day--a man like Jeremiah, from Jerusalem--and not shy about shedding tears as he wrestles with the Lord.

[volgadon]

In Jewish culture t depends what you weep for.

[Sargon]

PART 2:

In that same lecture I also learned that Jeremiah introduces a brand new theme to the Jews that they were not familiar with. Instead of thinking of God's judgment solely in collective terms, where the children suffer for the misdeeds of their fathers, Jeremiah claims that ever man will be punished for their own individual sins.

Jeremiah 31:29-30

29 In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the childrenâ??s teeth are set on edge.

30 But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.

This reminded me of the many times that Nephi teaches this same principle. In one instance Nephi teaches this principle to his brothers who seem to be surprised by it, as if it were not a familiar teaching to them.

2 Nephi 15:33

33 Wherefore, if they should die in their wickedness they must be cast off also, as to the things which are spiritual, which are pertaining to righteousness; wherefore, they must be brought to stand before God, to be judged of their works; and if their works have been filthiness they must needs be filthy; and if they be filthy it must needs be that they cannot dwell in the kingdom of God; if so, the kingdom of God must be filthy also.

2 Nephi 16:1-2

1 And now it came to pass that after I, Nephi, had made an end of speaking to my brethren, behold they said unto me: Thou hast declared unto us hard things, more than we are able to bear.

2 And it came to pass that I said unto them that I knew that I had spoken hard things against the wicked, according to the truth; and the righteous have I justified, and testified that they should be lifted up at the last day; wherefore, the guilty taketh the truth to be hard, for it cutteth them to the very center.

Nephi and Jeremiah both appear to be teaching the same new perspective on God's judgment at about the same time. Hopefully those with training here can tell us if there is anything more to this than just a neat cross reference. Thanks!

[David Bokovoy]

Very cool insight. I've never thought about the cultural view of masculine tears. Your observation reminded me, however, that the notion of a king, such as Nephi, crying unto the gods is a commonly attested theme in the ancient Near East.

An important example derives from the story of the Canaanite monarch Kirta, from the tablets of ancient Ugarit. The myth describes how Kirta secures a blessing from El via a sincere prayer which includes the shedding of tears:

He enters his chamber, he cries;

An inner [x], and weeps;

His tears are poured forth

Like shekels on the ground,

Like five-weights on the couch.

As he cries, he falls asleep;

As he weeps, thereâ??s slumberâ?¦

Now El approaches, asking Kirta:

What ails Kirta, that he cries?

That he weeps, the Pleasant, Lad of El?

(KTU 1.14 lines 26-41)

From the ancient East Semitic sphere, we have the Akkadian verb baku which appears as a description of actions performed by the Mesopotamian king in CT 40 9 Sm. 772 r. 24: summa BARA ana ill utnen u IR â??if the king prays to the gods and sheds tears...â?

[USU78]

Very cool insight. I've never thought about the cultural view of masculine tears. Your observation reminded me, however, that the notion of a king, such as Nephi, crying unto the gods is a commonly attested theme in the ancient Near East.

An important example derives from the story of the Canaanite monarch Kirta, from the tablets of ancient Ugarit. The myth describes how Kirta secures a blessing from El via a sincere prayer which includes the shedding of tears:

He enters his chamber, he cries;

An inner [x], and weeps;

His tears are poured forth

Like shekels on the ground,

Like five-weights on the couch.

As he cries, he falls asleep;

As he weeps, thereâ??s slumberâ?¦

Now El approaches, asking Kirta:

What ails Kirta, that he cries?

That he weeps, the Pleasant, Lad of El?

(KTU 1.14 lines 26-41)

From the ancient East Semitic sphere, we have the Akkadian verb baku which appears as a description of actions performed by the Mesopotamian king in CT 40 9 Sm. 772 r. 24: summa BARA ana ill utnen u IR â??if the king prays to the gods and sheds tears...â?

!!!

Shades of Genesis 1:1 . . . quite the notion that G-d weeps the universe into being, then broods upon the waters that are his tears.

Am I missing something?

[Bernard Gui]

Nephi and Jeremiah both appear to be teaching the same new perspective on God's judgment at about the same time. Hopefully those with training here can tell us if there is anything more to this than just a neat cross reference. Thanks!

Excellent observations! A while back I tried to get a discussion going on the similar uses

of wicked pastors and good sheep by Nephi and Jeremiah, but it didn't get any traction.

I think there is a gold mine of goodies in Jeremiah...he was Lehi's contemporary, and

perhaps mentor.

Bernard

[Sargon]

Excellent observations! A while back I tried to get a discussion going on the similar uses

of wicked pastors and good sheep by Nephi and Jeremiah, but it didn't get any traction.

I think there is a gold mine of goodies in Jeremiah...he was Lehi's contemporary, and

perhaps mentor.

Bernard

Thanks! Will you share with us your observation?

I remember someone on the Journey of Faith DVD (I think it Sis. Truman) suggesting that maybe Nephi, Jeremiah, and Daniel were friends. It was a neat thought at least.

[volgadon]

Well, Jeremiah would have been quite older than Nephi, but I'm sure he had some dealing with Lehi.