Help Finding a Brigham Young Quote...

[David Bokovoy]

So, I've been trying unsuccessfully to locate a quote from Brigham Young regarding the importance of spiritual independency.

It's along the lines of stating that if the Saints need Brigham and Heber to guide them in all spiritual matters and cannot determine religious truth on their own that they will not advance into celestial glory.

Any help?

[Kevin Christensen]

So, I've been trying unsuccessfully to locate a quote from Brigham Young regarding the importance of spiritual independency.

It's along the lines of stating that if the Saints need Brigham and Heber to guide them in all spiritual matters and cannot determine religious truth on their own that they will not advance into celestial glory.

Any help?

How about this one:

Do you know whether I am leading you right or not? Do you know whether I dictate you right or not? Do you know whether the wisdom and the mind of the Lord are dispensed to you correctly or not? . . . I have a request to make of each and every Latter-day Saint, or those who profess to be, to so live that the Spirit of the Lord will whisper to them and teach them the truth. . . . In this there is safety; without this there is danger, imminent danger [you otherwise get a tyrant or a dictator]; and my exhortation to the Latter-day Saints isâ??Live your religion [and you'll know for yourself].

JD 17:51

Though I think the one you really want is quoted in the Dialogue essay that gave President Grant's response to the notorious 1945 Home Teaching message. I've got that somewhere around here...

Kevin Christensen

Bethel Park, PA

[The Nehor]

I think this is the one you want, a personal favorite:

Now those men, or those women, who know no more about the power of God, and the influences of the Holy Spirit, than to be led entirely by another person, suspending their own understanding, and pinning their faith upon another's sleeve, will never be capable of entering into the celestial glory, to be crowned as they anticipate; they will never be capable of becoming Gods. They cannot rule themselves, to say nothing of ruling others, but they must be dictated to in every trifle, like a child. They cannot control themselves in the least, but James, Peter, or somebody else must control them. They never can become Gods, nor be crowned as rulers with glory, immortality, and eternal lives. They never can hold sceptres of glory, majesty, and power in the celestial kingdom. Who will? Those who are valiant and inspired with the true independence of heaven, who will go forth boldly in the service of their God, leaving others to do as they please, determined to do right, though all mankind besides should take the opposite course. Will this apply to any of you? Your own hearts can answer." (JD 1:312)

[Lamanite]

You might like this one too:

â??Brigham Young: "I am more afraid that this people have so much confidence in their leaders that they will not inquire for themselves of God whether they are led by Him. I am fearful that they settle down in a state of blind self security, trusting their eternal destiny in the hands of their leaders with a reckless confidence that in itself would thwart the purposes of God in their salvation, and weaken that influence they could give to their leaders, did they know for themselves, by the revelation of Jesus, that they are led in the right way. Let every man and woman know, by the whisperings of the Spirit of God to themselves, whether their leaders are walking in the path the Lord dictates, or not." [ibid.; also in Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, 26 vols. (London: Latter-day Saintsâ?? Book Depot, 1860), 9:150.]

Big UP!

Lamanite

[William Schryver]

You might like this one too:

â??Brigham Young: "I am more afraid that this people have so much confidence in their leaders that they will not inquire for themselves of God whether they are led by Him. I am fearful that they settle down in a state of blind self security, trusting their eternal destiny in the hands of their leaders with a reckless confidence that in itself would thwart the purposes of God in their salvation, and weaken that influence they could give to their leaders, did they know for themselves, by the revelation of Jesus, that they are led in the right way. Let every man and woman know, by the whisperings of the Spirit of God to themselves, whether their leaders are walking in the path the Lord dictates, or not." [ibid.; also in Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, 26 vols. (London: Latter-day Saintsâ?? Book Depot, 1860), 9:150.]

Big UP!

Lamanite

I like all of the ones that have been posted. I've been building a document containing these kinds of quotes. Brigham Young is great!

Hey, Lamanite, I'll betcha didn't know that I was born and raised in old Farmington -- my family there goes back several generations. I knew it before it became what it is today: too crowded for me to stay. But I could tell you some stories ...

[Lamanite]

I like all of the ones that have been posted. I've been building a document containing these kinds of quotes. Brigham Young is great!

Hey, Lamanite, I'll betcha didn't know that I was born and raised in old Farmington -- my family there goes back several generations. I knew it before it became what it is today: too crowded for me to stay. But I could tell you some stories ...

Nah, I didn't know that. It has gotten too ritzy for me. I just bought a house in Layton in an attempt to avoid the bourgeoisie. I'm a proletariat at heart!

Big UP!

Lamanite

[David Bokovoy]

How about this one:

JD 17:51

Though I think the one you really want is quoted in the Dialogue essay that gave President Grant's response to the notorious 1945 Home Teaching message. I've got that somewhere around here...

Kevin Christensen

Bethel Park, PA

Thanks Kevin. That's fantastic. I don't think I've ever read that one.

[David Bokovoy]

You might like this one too:

â??Brigham Young: "I am more afraid that this people have so much confidence in their leaders that they will not inquire for themselves of God whether they are led by Him. I am fearful that they settle down in a state of blind self security, trusting their eternal destiny in the hands of their leaders with a reckless confidence that in itself would thwart the purposes of God in their salvation, and weaken that influence they could give to their leaders, did they know for themselves, by the revelation of Jesus, that they are led in the right way. Let every man and woman know, by the whisperings of the Spirit of God to themselves, whether their leaders are walking in the path the Lord dictates, or not." [ibid.; also in Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, 26 vols. (London: Latter-day Saintsâ?? Book Depot, 1860), 9:150.]

Big UP!

Lamanite

A big up indeed. Thanks.

[David Bokovoy]

I think this is the one you want, a personal favorite:

Thanks, Nehor. I think you're correct. I believe this is the one I had in mind, though I remembered (perhaps incorrectly) the inclusion of himself and Heber into the equation.

[The_Monk]

Salvation is an individual operation. I am the only person that can possibly save myself. When salvation is sent to me, I can reject or receive it. In receiving it, I yield implicit obedience and submission to its great Author throughout my life, and to those whom He shall appoint to instruct me; in rejecting it, I follow the dictates of my own will in preference to the will of my Creator. There are those among this people who are influenced, controlled, and biased in their thoughts, actions, and feelings by some other individual or family, on whom they place their dependence for spiritual and temporal instruction, and for salvation in the end. These persons do not depend upon themselves for salvation, but upon another of their poor, weak, fellow mortals. "I do not depend upon any inherent goodness of my own," say they, "to introduce me into the kingdom of glory, but I depend upon you, brother Joseph, upon you, brother Brigham, upon you, brother Heber, or upon you, brother James; I believe your judgment is superior to mine, and consequently I let you judge for me; your spirit is better than mine, therefore you can do good for me; I will submit myself wholly to you, and place in you all my confidence for life and salvation; where you go I will go, and where you tarry there I will stay; expecting that you will introduce me through the gates into the heavenly Jerusalem."

-Brigham Young, JD 1: ?? (BY discourse of Feb 20, 1853)

[The_Monk]

Also, I've tracked some people who quote this one. It's popped up relatively often, for an obscure citation.

I am more afraid that this people have so much confidence in their leaders that they will not inquire for themselves of God whether they are led by Him. I am fearful they settle down in a state of blind self-security, trusting their eternal destiny in the hands of their leaders with a reckless confidence that in itself would thwart the purposes of God in their salvation, and weaken that influence they could give to their leaders, did they know for themselves, by the revelations of Jesus, that they are led in the right way. Let every man and woman know, by the whisperings of the Spirit of God to themselves, whether their leaders are walking in the path the Lord dictates, or not. (Journal of Discourses, 9: 150.) Discourses of Brigham Young, 135.

(Quoted by Elder Faust in Reach up for the Light, 115. To Reach Even unto You, 36. Ensign, Sept. 1998, 4. Ensign August 1996, 7. Ensign Nov. 1989, 10-11. quoted by Elder Maxwell in A More Excellent Way, 20. We will Prove Them Herewith, 21-22. Quoted by Elder Ezra Taft Benson, Ensign, July 1972, 61. Conference Report, October 1963, 17-18.Quoted by Harold B. Lee, Conference Report, October 1950, 130.)