marnieh Posted January 26, 2009 Posted January 26, 2009 The claim of Ezekiel's supposed failure has never sat well with me. However, I agree completely with your assessment of Deut 18.What is his/your assessment of Deut. 18 again?
Kevin Christensen Posted January 27, 2009 Author Posted January 27, 2009 What is his/your assessment of Deut. 18 again?In reading of Deut. 18:22 says that "if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him."That is, it is simply a presumptuous word, not utter refutation of otherwise prophetic performance. For example, Nathan at one point tells David that he is to build the temple. The next day, nope. In the New Testament, when Jesus says that he is "to suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed and raised again the third day." Peter says, "Be it far from thee Lord: this shall not be unto thee." The way I read Deut. 18:22, I have room for such mistakes from prophets. I take a broad view. Prophet's are not God's own sock puppets. Those who specialize in looking for an excuse to reject a prophet may well find one. However, I think a broad view is much safer. It provides a wider, deeper perspective for the question. It happens that Joseph Smith does provide many many prophetic statements, many of which have been unambiguously fulfilled. Duane Crowther put together a book of them. The Prophecies of Joseph Smith. More recently, John Welch reviewed a more recent once called "Joseph Smith's Prophetic Gifts: His Prophecies Fulfilled" by Pat Ament (Two Lights, 2003). One of my personal favorites is D&C 3, which was recorded in 1828, when Joseph Smith had nothing going for him but failure, when he had lost the 116 pages, and had the plates and Urim and Thumim taken from him. Everything thing that D&C 3 said was going to happen has happened. Another is 1 Nephi 13:39-41, which I have compared with Margaret's essay "Text and Context." One of my favorite examples of an allegedly failed Bible prophecies came from a 1900ish book some one showed my while I was on my mission in England. It billed itself as The Atheist's handbook. It contained, among other things, a list of failed Biblical prophecies. First one the list was the return of the Jews to Israel. That would not find a home in a second edition. I bring this up to point out that the critics are not ominiscient. Something that looked like a mistake for 1800 years turned out not to be. Rushing to judgment is not a good idea.As a general case, I prefer Isaiah 55:8-12. God's word will accomplish what he intends. Not necessarily what we think it should. We should approach prophets with a little humility.I also offered Biblical recommendations for seeing truth, and examples of how Biblical peoples rejected true prophets. Those who fail to follow the recommendations for seeing truth inevitably recreate the kinds of arguments given to reject Biblical prophets. But no one can be compelled. Only invited. Joseph's record can only invite, not compell, further consideration. Ron Beron has offered some good contextualization for the Old Testament. For the purposes of my essay, I that was not my focus, I do advocate further reading and contextualizing. I'm not trying to end investigations, but to start one that has been neglected, despite Richard's claim of "bazillions." I do notice that I can comfortably fit Ron's bulleted list of traits that Isaiah associates with prophets into the list of traits in my essay. I personally think it is implicity that a true prophet should know something about the temple. But I was trying to collect explicit tests and make them available, unavoidably conspicuous, and useful.Kevin ChristensenBethel Park, PA
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