A Strange Detail In Bom Sacrament Practice . . .

[LDSMusic483]

You make an interesting observation there. It would seem that these comments in Moroni 4 relate to a point in time removed from the Savior's appearance to the Nephites and the practice he instituted of having "one" ordained to have the power to bless, break and pass the bread.

Additional support for that position would be that Moroni 4 refers to elders and priests as opposed to the "Disciples" referenced in 3 Nephi, only one of whom was ordained to this power by Jesus.

It would of course only make sense that as the Nephites spread out after the 3 Nephi 8 destruction, that more people would need to be ordained to that power instead of the practice set up by the Savior of having only one.

That was behind my question in the OP as to whether anybody knew of a time at the LDS Church's inception in 1830 of a similar practice being followed, when they were still a small group and could all meet together at the same time.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

You could have just come out and asked that question in the OP you know...

I know that sure the church was small enough at one point for that to be feasible, but it doesn't seem as though the Lord found that necessary. Perhaps, knowing that the revelation that set forth who could bless the sacrament was going to be in a church wide book, and giving that revelation at the same approx. time that the church was organized, the Lord simply passed by this step knowing the growth of the church and the subsequent confusion it might cause, and the necessity for immediate future revelation.

Also, Moroni does call those who had authority Elders. In D&C 20, the Lord specifically states that Apostles are Elders. Seeing as the Disciples were the BoM equivalent of the Apostles, it is probable that they were also known as Elders. This may just not have been included in the BoM considering that the time periods following Christs coming to the America's seem to be glossed over. In fact...now that I went back and checked...Moroni 3:1 says this:

1 The manner which the disciples, who were called the elders of the church, ordained priests and teachersâ??

[consiglieri]

Although it is often difficult to realize how one is being perceived by others, it seems to me that there are some on this board who are going to great lengths to make me an offender for a word.

O wad some Power the giftie gie us

To see oursels as ithers see us!

All the Best!

--Burnsieri

[consiglieri]

You could have just come out and asked that question in the OP you know...

I did ask that question in the OP.

1. Was there a time at the inception of the Church of Christ in 1830 when only one person had the authority to break the bread, bless it and pass it? If not, why not?

For the record, I also included the following observation in the OP which some seem to have overlooked:

To get the discussion going, may I suggest that, inasmuch as the Nephites were just converting over from the law of Moses at this time, the restriction of the power to only one individual to break, bless and pass the bread would have invoked the office of the Mosaic High Priest, who was the only one imbued with authority to enter the Holy of Holies on the Day of Atonement and make sacrifice on behalf of the sins of the people? It would seem that the equating of the two practices in this manner would help people see the connection between the rites, that Jesus is the new propitiation for sins, and also aid in the fulfillment of the scriptural declarations that all the prophets and the law testified of Christ.

In light of the above lengthy paragraph from the OP, I remain surprised at the amount of vitriol expended by TBM's on my behalf.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[LDSMusic483]

I did ask that question in the OP.

For the record, I also included the following observation in the OP which some seem to have overlooked:

In light of the above lengthy paragraph from the OP, I remain surprised at the amount of vitriol expended by TBM's on my behalf.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

My mistake...I must have glossed over your entry! And I hope you haven't felt that I have been trying to attack you. I've just been trying to solve your puzzle! I think another interesting question is that if the sacrament is to help us renew our baptismal covenants, isn't it interesting that ALL of the 12 were given the authority to baptize, but only one of the 12 to administer the sacrament. Might that have been an early show of "convenience" so that one individual need not perform all ordinances?

[phaedrus ut]

Consig,

What your observation initially brought to my mind was Jesus teaching the correct lords prayer to the Nephites ...

3 Nephi 13

9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name.

10 Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

11 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

12 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.

13 For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, forever. Amen.

Like having one man ordained to provide the sacrament, saying the lords prayer wouldn't seem out of place to the average christian reading these passages for the first time. But to a lifelong Mormon it's may look out of place compared to our present practice.

Phaedrus

//I recall a new convert couple asking "When do we use this prayer?" in one of their first Gospel Doctrine classes. The question kind of stumped the teacher.

[CMZ]

Although it is often difficult to realize how one is being perceived by others, it seems to me that there are some on this board who are going to great lengths to make me an offender for a word.

We all make mistakes but most people would see your OP as simply trying to stir up contention. Oh, the untold hours wasted on useless debates here (and I'm including myself in that).

[mfbukowski]

What is your perspective as it applies to my comments on Moroni 4?

I think I pretty much agree with you. At first I am sure there weren't many who had the priesthood, and someone had to have responsibility for it,-- the "bishop" as today. So one was chosen to do so.

I honestly don't think there is much of a distinction between how it was done then and done now. Another perspective is that this appears to be more Catholic/Protestant than LDS practice today, with one minister or priest in charge.

I think that is about the most anyone could make of it. To me it's a non-issue