How Many Saviors Are Out There In The Multiverse?

[Zakuska]

It seems that Jesus' atonement has saved other worlds also.

Are only a certain "batch" of spirit children involved? Will Heavenly Father, continuing to have spirit children perpetually, have another batch and choose the firstborn son of that batch as another Savior? This seems to make more sense to me than Him forever stopping His procreation of spirit children at some point, or than having only one Savior for all of His spirit children for eternity, the actual atonement becoming ever more remote as he continues to have them.

Seems to me that every person on the Mount is a savior.

Obad 1

21 And saviours shall come up on mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be the LORDâ??s.

Also, is it possible (in light of D&C 132:26) for a person to reach the point where their sins are no longer covered by the atonement of Jesus Christ and need to be paid for by them?

Seems to me that happens the moment one becomes a beleiver...

Heb 10

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28 He that adespised Mosesâ?? law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

[kamenraider]

Seems to me that every person on the Mount is a savior.

Obad 1

21 And saviours shall come up on mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be the LORDâ??s.

Seems to me that happens the moment one becomes a beleiver...

Heb 10

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28 He that adespised Mosesâ?? law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

I totally agree with you, however, I think it happens after a person receives the second anointing and it is sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise.

Of course, we are saviors in the sense of extending the blessings of the atonement of Jesus Christ to others through missionary and temple work, but I think that, past the point I mentioned above, we are responsible for atoning for our own sins and possibly some of the sins of those within our family or other stewardship if we don't properly fulfil our obligations towards them as far as teaching them or leading them or testifying to them, and they consequently sin, whereas they would not have if we had done our duty towards them.

[valkator]

Help me out here a little, please.

LDS doctrine says that the atonement of Jesus ended physical death as an ultimate end, and

thus allows for the inevitability of a resurrection ---- correct?

If so, then that is a physical change in how the world operates (or is operated). How can such a

change in the laws of nature suddenly "end" at, say, the orbit of Mars, or some such place?

I think you may be equating physical bodies with the 'thing' that operates through them for a duration of time. Because of the Fall, Man is subjected to death. What does this mean? Does it mean that, all of a sudden, physical forms on every level of existence just started to deteriorate when previously they didn't? No. All forms are subject to some sort of death - which is dependent on a great many factors related to realm of existence and so forth. Physical laws operate differently depending on 'where' one is and are experienced differently depending on what one knows and is in relationship to the form they have taken on. Death, in the case of Man being subjected to it after the Fall, means that Man became more immersed in and tied to the physical form itself because his manifested nature (spiritual, mental, AND physical) contracted. We could call this a spiritual death at root, in that afterwards, Man had little to no memory of who he was, his real nature, and that his movment through physical manifestations (forms) up and down the 'ladder' is a natural process of 'progression'. By contracting and Falling, Man identifies himself WITH the physical form itself - hence he tends to believe that when the physical form 'dies' - so does he. In these terms, man must now experience death and has desperately sought to negate, stop, or even reverse physical death. His efforts are futile.

Even though it has little to do with some sort of actual blood sacrificial death and physical 'resurrection', the atonement exists as an outer model demonstrating that one doesn't 'die' when one leaves their current body. In a very real sense, one dies to the world in order to truly 'live' and 'see' the kingdom -- that is within. It has to be explained through these outer savior models, which rely heavily on physical demonstration narratives, precisely because many have become so degenerate spiritually that they can only relate to something or with someone 'out there' in the first place. Ideally, the model should propel some to begin the hard work that will reveal themselves to themselves AS Christ - even though one still acknowledges that Jesus was, also, Christ and can still honor him as an 'elder brother' in very real terms. However, many do not understand what being a Christ - or being Christed - even means, so I'm sure some will simply call it blasphemy to suggest that ALL have the same potential to realize their true nature just as Jesus did - and that that his teachings and life were and are all about showing others what they, too, are and can 'become'. The religous system built around him is - or should be - a guide to those ends, imo.

Finally, to be 'resurrected' doesn't suspend or change the laws of physics at all. In fact, resurrection can be witnessed through these laws, themselves. Physical forms do not 'die' but transform - continually. What one transforms into (resurrection), though, is highly dependent on the trajectory of the one living through their current form. 'Resurrection' is SELF-directed - or at least can be when one awakens. What we 'become' is up to each of us to determine as individuals. There are many who believe resurrection to be some sort of literal, ego-identified reconstitution of one's current bodily form in very definite 'flesh and bone' terms. Perhaps, because that's all they can 'see' and 'identify with' - that will be their next 'destination' - back in the same Earthly context still working to graduate.

...as to how many 'Christ saviors' are out there amongst the other Fallen worlds - as many as needed to teach the inhabitants.

[Calm]

Also, cjcampbell and calmoriah,

Do you think that if we achieve "the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ" (Eph. 4:13) that we will have to pay for our own sins?

Certainly not the sins that were forgiven through the Atonement of Christ.

As for any that we do after the process is complete in our next life...I have no clue as we will be different individuals in different situations with different abilities and expectations. I am not even sure whether or not humans will be able to sin at that time (gets into ability vs. choice).

[Calm]

Seems to me that happens the moment one becomes a beleiver...

Heb 10

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

I think much depends on what exactly is the "knowledge of the truth". If we, in our mortal limitations are unable to understand the things of God, then it just might be that this knowledge doesn't come until after the mortal part of our probation. Or it might come with the 2nd anointing as discussed. I doubt, from personal experience, that it comes at the moment one becomes a believer; if so the Sacrament would be an empty ritual, imo.