Amazing Grace

[Cold Steel]

Listen, Helix, if you don't like it here, go somewhere else!

Warmly, your friend,

Cold Steel

[cjcampbell]

"Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound,

That saved a wretch like me....

I once was lost but now am found,

Was blind, but now, I see.

T'was Grace that taught...

my heart to fear.

And Grace, my fears relieved.

How precious did that Grace appear...

the hour I first believed.

Through many dangers, toils and snares...

we have already come.

T'was Grace that brought us safe thus far...

and Grace will lead us home.

The Lord has promised good to me...

His word my hope secures.

He will my shield and portion be...

as long as life endures.

When we've been here ten thousand years...

bright shining as the sun.

We've no less days to sing God's praise...

then when we've first begun.

"Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound,

That saved a wretch like me....

I once was lost but now am found,

Was blind, but now, I see.

These are the most common words to the hymn. There are several objections I can think of. As sons and daughters of God, we are of royal lineage -- hardly wretches. There seems to be an implication in the song that we are not worth saving, but that God did it anyway and we are grateful for it.

Again, the song implies that salvation is attained "the hour I first believed." This is also not doctrinal.

[Redeemed]

In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

I believe that salvation is a gift from God, and we recieve it because of Gods GRACE towards us that are in Christ Jesus.

redeemed

ps Mankind is fallen,we are not royal and we all need recieve gift that God has provided to us through Jesus.

[auteur55]

hardly wretches

Nephi said "O wretched man that I am" as did Paul.

I don't see why any Mormon would have a problem thinking their sinful natures are "wretched" at times.

[Pahoran]

If one claims to have a relationship with Christ (i.e., to be a Christian) and then describes Him as "a God" (as per the LDS Bible Dictionary) or one of the Gods, or an "elder brother" or anything less than God, then we have a strong, Biblically-based reason to believe that claim is false and the person making the claim is deceived.

Well no, we in fact do not.

What "we"--i.e. you--have is a reason to suspect that that person may have a different theology than you do. One that is, perhaps, based more upon realities than upon hair-splitting ****ering over precise verbiage.

To make a rough analogy, imagine someone claimed to know Clint Eastwood and then described him as a tall black man with a thick Bostonian accent. Obviously it's not the real Clint Eastwood (at least not the actor/director most readily associated with the name).

Actually that's not just a rough analogy, it's a bogus one. A closer analogy would be to imagine someone claimed to know Clint Eastwood, the actor/director we associate with that name, and said that Eastwood had acted in Spaghetti Westerns early in his career, while another person who claimed to know him denied that he had ever done such a thing. Obviously one is wrong, but it does not follow that they are talking about two numerically distinct Clint Eastwoods.

So you see Pahoran, your assertion regarding my knowledge that LDS are Christian missed the mark badly. Hopefully this will help you to be better informed (or at least more careful) the next time.

You're right. By your own admission, you are quite clueless on a matter that is entirely non-controversial except in the minds of a tiny number of latter-day Pharisees.

Next time, I will say something like, "As you should know, Erik, Latter-day Saints are Christians by definition. And you would know it if you were not blinded to the truth by your pseudo-Christian zealotry."

Is that better?

Regards,

Pahoran

[cjcampbell]

In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

I believe that salvation is a gift from God, and we recieve it because of Gods GRACE towards us that are in Christ Jesus.

redeemed

ps Mankind is fallen,we are not royal and we all need recieve gift that God has provided to us through Jesus.

As one wretch to another, then, why do you think that God decided to redeem us?

I am well aware that we, in a wretched and sinful state, are unprofitable servants and that we owe everything we have, even the air we breath, to the grace of God. King Benjamin's speech in the Book of Mormon goes into this in detail.

However, I have an issue with the idea that we are not royal and that we are not worth saving, when the scriptures teach otherwise.

[jadams_4242]

On a previous thread, Mormon apologist Daniel C. Peterson characterized the song â??Amazing Graceâ? as a â??great hymn.â? T-shirt, presumably an LDS poster, opined that it is â??unfortunateâ? that Amazing Grace is not in the LDS hymnbookâ??but he/she noted encouragingly that it is preformed on occasion by the Tabernacle Choir (along with many other non-LDS and secular songs).

These pro-Amazing Grace sentiments were sharply countermanded by another, presumably LDS poster, Maklelan, who stated: â??It's doctrinally unsound, according to the First Presidency. That's why it's not in the hymnbook.â?

In a time when the prevailing LDS sentiment seems to be to try and co-opt any and all things Christian, Maklelanâ??s post felt like a blast from the past.

Regrettably, Maklelan didnâ??t furnish a reference for his â??according to the First Presidencyâ? assertion. None-the-less, Iâ??d like to hear from any LDS who support Maklelanâ??s view (and presumably the view of the Mormon First Presidency). Why is Amazing Grace doctrinally unsound, according to Mormonism?

--Erik

I did hear a very good conitation of amazing grace by the tabernacle organist last sunday as a matter of fact.

On "music and the spoken word". 7-16-07

[Obiwan]

I did not vote because my view, and I think most LDS's FULL view is not indicated.

Simply, great song, but theologically not really appropriate from the LDS Hymnal.

We are Children of God, not the wretched of the earth, hence the main reason it's not included.

[LifeOnaPlate]

As far as the wretch thing goes, it has already been mentioned that Paul and Nephi both used the term, and we must admit that truly, there are times when we are quite wretched.

I have always been under the impression Amazing Grace was discluded either because of its strong connection to ideologies expressed in protestant groups who sang it a lot, or perhaps even because of a copyright issue. But I don't see any conflict within the song itself that really contradicts LDS doctrine.

As for the poster Redeemed, I'd invite him/her to read James Chapter 2.

[alter idem]

As far as the wretch thing goes, it has already been mentioned that Paul and Nephi both used the term, and we must admit that truly, there are times when we are quite wretched.

I have always been under the impression Amazing Grace was discluded either because of its strong connection to ideologies expressed in protestant groups who sang it a lot, or perhaps even because of a copyright issue. But I don't see any conflict within the song itself that really contradicts LDS doctrine.

As for the poster Redeemed, I'd invite him/her to read James Chapter 2.

Yes, without the saving grace of the Atonement, we are "wretches" are we not?

I agree, I think the hymn has been left out because of it's strong identification with other religions.