Only One True Church?

[Neighbor]

Here's a simple test I do to guage a person from their picture. Cover one half of their face, then the other. This quite often is very revealing of their nature. Seldom do people have the same look on both sides of their face. If it will copy here, this is the picture with the Pope news article.

http://www.kcra.com/news/13659165/detail.html#

Perhaps the right side of the face is closest to the persons real character. Just click on the picture and it should enlarge. How do you paste a picture to the post!?!?!

He really should see a dentist about whitening those teeth:-)

[Son]

Here's a simple test I do to guage a person from their picture. Cover one half of their face, then the other. This quite often is very revealing of their nature. Seldom do people have the same look on both sides of their face. If it will copy here, this is the picture with the Pope news article.

http://www.kcra.com/news/13659165/detail.html#

Perhaps the right side of the face is closest to the persons real character. Just click on the picture and it should enlarge. How do you paste a picture to the post!?!?!

He really should see a dentist about whitening those teeth:-)

I can deal with the teeth, thats just a euro thing.

Now the eyes on the other hand are a window into a mans soul.

[Lightbearer]

The concept you are not seeing is that of authority. I cannot speak for the Catholics but as a LDS I do see that the ordinances are essential to salvation in the Celestial Kingdom. Why do you think God sends Prophets or Apostles? Why give them authority? To do what? Ponder the following:

(D&C 84:32-44) "And the sons of Moses and of Aaron shall be filled with the glory of the Lord, upon Mount Zion in the Lordâ??s house, whose sons are ye; and also many whom I have called and sent forth to build up my church.

For whoso is faithful unto the obtaining these two priesthoods of which I have spoken, and the magnifying their calling, are sanctified by the Spirit unto the renewing of their bodies.

They become the sons of Moses and of Aaron and the seed of Abraham, and the church and kingdom, and the elect of God.

And also all they who receive this priesthood receive me, saith the Lord;

For he that receiveth my servants receiveth me;

And he that receiveth me receiveth my Father;

And he that receiveth my Father receiveth my Fatherâ??s kingdom; therefore all that my Father hath shall be given unto him.

And this is according to the oath and covenant which belongeth to the priesthood.

Therefore, all those who receive the priesthood, receive this oath and covenant of my Father, which he cannot break, neither can it be moved.

But whoso breaketh this covenant after he hath received it, and altogether turneth therefrom, shall not have forgiveness of sins in this world nor in the world to come.

And wo unto all those who come not unto this priesthood which ye have received, which I now confirm upon you who are present this day, by mine own voice out of the heavens; and even I have given the heavenly hosts and mine angels charge concerning you.

And I now give unto you a commandment to beware concerning yourselves, to give diligent heed to the words of eternal life.

For you shall live by every word that proceedeth forth from the mouth of God."

We cannot become a law unto ourselves, we must obey the Lord and receive His servants when He sends them. We do not dictate the terms, He does thus:

(D&C 1:6-16) "Behold, this is mine authority, and the authority of my servants, and my preface unto the book of my commandments, which I have given them to publish unto you, O inhabitants of the earth.

Wherefore, fear and tremble, O ye people, for what I the Lord have decreed in them shall be fulfilled.

And verily I say unto you, that they who go forth, bearing these tidings unto the inhabitants of the earth, to them is power given to seal both on earth and in heaven, the unbelieving and rebellious;

Yea, verily, to seal them up unto the day when the wrath of God shall be poured out upon the wicked without measureâ??

Unto the day when the Lord shall come to recompense unto every man according to his work, and measure to every man according to the measure which he has measured to his fellow man.

Wherefore the voice of the Lord is unto the ends of the earth, that all that will hear may hear:

Prepare ye, prepare ye for that which is to come, for the Lord is nigh;

And the anger of the Lord is kindled, and his sword is bathed in heaven, and it shall fall upon the inhabitants of the earth.

And the arm of the Lord shall be revealed; and the day cometh that they who will not hear the voice of the Lord, neither the voice of his servants, neither give heed to the words of the prophets and apostles, shall be cut off from among the people;

For they have strayed from mine ordinances, and have broken mine everlasting covenant;

They seek not the Lord to establish his righteousness, but every man walketh in his own way, and after the image of his own god, whose image is in the likeness of the world, and whose substance is that of an idol, which waxeth fold and shall perish in Babylon, even Babylon the great, which shall fall."

This is why it is important to be a "member" of the "only true and living Church." If God does send His servents then if we reject them we are rejecting Him. Just saying God doesn't care, or that all roads lead to heaven is ridiculous and does not make it true.

[Son]

The concept you are not seeing is that of authority. I cannot speak for the Catholics but as a LDS I do see that the ordinances are essential to salvation in the Celestial Kingdom. Why do you think God sends Prophets or Apostles? Why give them authority? To do what? Ponder the following:We cannot become a law unto ourselves, we must obey the Lord and receive His servants when He sends them. We do not dictate the terms, He does thus: This is why it is important to be a "member" of the "only true and living Church." If God does send His servents then if we reject them we are rejecting Him. Just saying God doesn't care, or that all roads lead to heaven is ridiculous and does not make it true.

I have no issues with "Gods" appointed authorities, His system is awesome, the organizational blessings are great.

The question and comments I have been spewing are based on whether man has sabotaged the process and ordaining those that are less than worthy. Or in a more gentle way of saying it, lowering the requirements for the priesthood to have eficacy.

As time has gone on, man has become more and more comfortable with lower degrees and acceptances of righteousness.

I am not sure how to go about correcting it, other than to say that Brigham Young dealt with the issue, when HP's and other priesthood holders were excercising the forms of the priesthood and never obtaining the power of the priesthood. He told them to stop. It was putting the priesthood to shame.

It is one thing for a man or a couple of men to ordain one into the holy priesthoods, it is entirely different when one "obtains" them (through living the promises) as the scriptures say, directly from God.

Granted there are high quality people with most having the best intentions and spirit, especially for this day and age, but it seems that there is a stalemate in growth. I am not seeing people grow into the power of Christ, all the while professing to be priesthood holders, it is more symbolic than real.

As to God sending His servants, He does continue to and they are not heard, it is assumed that those in place are His servants, when in fact they are there through succession, not appointment from God.

[Homestar Runner]

There is ONE true church the Bible speaks of ; It is the Church of the Firstborn, of which Enoch is the first to belong. He was the first to overcome death, and undo the works of Satan ( the Author of Death).

So my vote is for everyone to shelve the my club is better, and seek for the One true Church of God. The heavenly, the CHurch of the Firstborn Ones......Hope to see you there....

Let me get this straight - you flick boogies on other people's notions of a true church, then advance your own notion, and end with a request that everyone but you scrap their beliefs? You complain when others do it, but somehow it's ok when you do it?

That's question one. Question two: With your broader, more inclusive definition, can I be in your true church, and be a mormon at the same time? Where in the Bible does it say I can't?

HSR

[Lightbearer]

I have no issues with "Gods" appointed authorities, His system is awesome, the organizational blessings are great.

The question and comments I have been spewing are based on whether man has sabotaged the process and ordaining those that are less than worthy. Or in a more gentle way of saying it, lowering the requirements for the priesthood to have eficacy.

As time has gone on, man has become more and more comfortable with lower degrees and acceptances of righteousness.

I am not sure how to go about correcting it, other than to say that Brigham Young dealt with the issue, when HP's and other priesthood holders were excercising the forms of the priesthood and never obtaining the power of the priesthood. He told them to stop. It was putting the priesthood to shame.

It is one thing for a man or a couple of men to ordain one into the holy priesthoods, it is entirely different when one "obtains" them (through living the promises) as the scriptures say, directly from God.

Granted there are high quality people with most having the best intentions and spirit, especially for this day and age, but it seems that there is a stalemate in growth. I am not seeing people grow into the power of Christ, all the while professing to be priesthood holders, it is more symbolic than real.

As to God sending His servants, He does continue to and they are not heard, it is assumed that those in place are His servants, when in fact they are there through succession, not appointment from God.

Who do you think He sends? It is not assumed those in place are His servants, it is known by the power of the Holy Ghost that Gordon B Hinckley is the Prophet of God today. If there is a stalemate in growth it is because the people will not listen to and follow the council of the First Presidency and the Council of the Twelve Apostles.

[Son]

Let me get this straight - you flick boogies on other people's notions of a true church, then advance your own notion, and end with a request that everyone but you scrap their beliefs? You complain when others do it, but somehow it's ok when you do it?

That's question one. Question two: With your broader, more inclusive definition, can I be in your true church, and be a mormon at the same time? Where in the Bible does it say I can't?

HSR

First, since when did God authorize a church called Mormon?

When did I say everyone should scrap their beliefs?

I don't have a church, the Church of the Firstborn is God's. It is in His kingdom. We are admonished to be one with it.

[Son]

Who do you think He sends? It is not assumed those in place are His servants, it is known by the power of the Holy Ghost that Gordon B Hinckley is the Prophet of God today. If there is a stalemate in growth it is because the people will not listen to and follow the council of the First Presidency and the Council of the Twelve Apostles.

So you are saying that GBH has the testimony that God appointed him? I thought it was the council.

I would add that if the President obtained the powers of the priesthood it would go a long way to show his fruits are one with the proclamations, of which there are not too many prophecies attached to his term.

[PacMan]

First, since when did God authorize a church called Mormon?

Are you serious? If you want to flogged for ridiculousness, keep it up.

I don't have a church, the Church of the Firstborn is God's. It is in His kingdom. We are admonished to be one with it.

And who did the admonishing? Where is it? How do you find it? Who's the leader of the congregation?

PacMan

[Son]

Are you serious? If you want to flogged for ridiculousness, keep it up.

And who did the admonishing? Where is it? How do you find it? Who's the leader of the congregation?

PacMan

I am serious, the President of the LDS church proclaimed that Latter Day Saints were not to refer to themselves as Mormons. Did you not receive that?

I believe it would be God and Christ that admonished oneness.

[alexkidd]

After much study I concluded that the only possible religious "church" having the fullness of truth was:

1. The Jews

2. The Catholics

3. The Mormons

4. Christ's church does not exist

I never did see an answer for #4. How did you know this wasn't the correct choice?

[docrick]

I never did see an answer for #4. How did you know this wasn't the correct choice?

My conclusion was that based on the witness I received that the restoration was in fact true and that it brought back authority that was lost (Apostacy). Since I received that witness then #4 was not for me.

[alexkidd]

My conclusion was that based on the witness I received that the restoration was in fact true and that it brought back authority that was lost (Apostacy). Since I received that witness then #4 was not for me.

And what was that witness?

How do you know there was an apostacy?

[SolarPowered]

First, since when did God authorize a church called Mormon?

As far as I know, he never has. "Mormon" is merely a nickname for the Church that has stuck with us through the years; it never has been an official name of the Church.

He did, however, direct that His Church was to be called "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" in 1838:

3 And also unto my faithful servants who are of the high council of my church in Zion, for thus it shall be called, and unto all the elders and people of my Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, scattered abroad in all the world;

4 For thus shall my church be called in the last days, even The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

[Paul Ray]

There is ONE true church the Bible speaks of ; It is the Church of the Firstborn, of which Enoch is the first to belong. He was the first to overcome death, and undo the works of Satan ( the Author of Death).

I agree with all that, and I am happy to be in the one true church of Jesus Christ.

So my vote is for everyone to shelve the my club is better, and seek for the One true Church of God.

I believe the one true church of God is better than all the rest of them.

There doesn't necessarily need to be any separation.

The heavenly, the CHurch of the Firstborn Ones......Hope to see you there...

I'm here.

Where are you?

Oh, I see.

You are there.

Come over here and join us.

We're in the best church.

PS, if you can seek best through membership and require guidence until you can stand and be led directly, by all means that is why they are there. Godspeed.

I guess I am one of those who requires continuous guidance, and I'll always seek to be led by Jesus Christ and his messengers.

[docrick]

And what was that witness?

How do you know there was an apostacy?

After much study, poder and prayer regarding the Book of Mormon I received a personal, powerful witness of the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon as the word of God and another testament of Jesus Christ.

Because of this witness Joseph Smith is therefore a prophet of God. He truly saw and spoke with Diety and thy with him. Thus I can conclude there was an Apostacy (withdrawal of priesthood authority) if it were not so there would be no reason for a restoration.

[alexkidd]

After much study, poder and prayer regarding the Book of Mormon I received a personal, powerful witness of the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon as the word of God and another testament of Jesus Christ.

Because of this witness Joseph Smith is therefore a prophet of God. He truly saw and spoke with Diety and thy with him. Thus I can conclude there was an Apostacy (withdrawal of priesthood authority) if it were not so there would be no reason for a restoration.

I guess I'm not making myself understood, likely because I'm not as up on the vernacular as I once was. In what form did you receive this witness? Was it a physical manifestation?

Thanks again for your responses. I doubt we will have much common ground, but I'm always interested in learning more about others' religious conversions.

[Paul Ray]

I guess I'm not making myself understood, likely because I'm not as up on the vernacular as I once was. In what form did you receive this witness? Was it a physical manifestation?

Since docrick and I are in agreement on this issue, it might help you to know how I received my witness.

And I'll answer by saying:

I received this witness in the form of which I now have it. It is something I now know, intrinsically.

And yes, it was a physical manifestation... in the sense of receiving a witness from another person.

Have you ever received a witness from someone you personally know without visually seeing them tell you something, but while still knowing it is that other person who is talking to you?

What is it that influences you to believe what that other person tells you, when you somehow sense that what they're saying is true?

Do you always trust God to tell you the truth about everything?

If so, what is that influences you to believe God?

If not, why trust any other person?

[alexkidd]

Since docrick and I are in agreement on this issue, it might help you to know how I received my witness.

And I'll answer by saying:

I received this witness in the form of which I now have it. It is something I now know, intrinsically.

And yes, it was a physical manifestation... in the sense of receiving a witness from another person.

Have you ever received a witness from someone you personally know without visually seeing them tell you something, but while still knowing it is that other person who is talking to you?

What is it that influences you to believe what that other person tells you, when you somehow sense that what they're saying is true?

Do you always trust God to tell you the truth about everything?

If so, what is that influences you to believe God?

If not, why trust any other person?

Isn't this intrinsic feeling what every believer of every faith has?

[Paul Ray]

Isn't this intrinsic feeling what every believer of every faith has?

How am I supposed to know what other people have???

I only really know what I have. Honestly.

[Son]

I agree with all that, and I am happy to be in the one true church of Jesus Christ.

I believe the one true church of God is better than all the rest of them.

There doesn't necessarily need to be any separation.

I'm here.

Where are you?

Oh, I see.

You are there.

Come over here and join us.

We're in the best church.

I guess I am one of those who requires continuous guidance, and I'll always seek to be led by Jesus Christ and his messengers.

I think you are in the best church that could bring you into the church of the First born, but unless you have been to that church and back, you are still on the track. Hey that rhymed.

Maybe there is no separation in God's eyes, and it is a man made separation or maybe a satanic separation in order to keep the oneness from happening.

I feel like I am one with all the churches, and that doesn't involve being a member of any. How is that?

I can go into any church and worship with anyone, or worship alone, or driving, or sitting here.

Could a EV do that (not with cult members), Would a LDS do that (sometimes)? but without some judgement of ours is better? varies.

I require continuous guidance as well, my guide for the most part is Christ (His Spirit). Sometimes a messenger has something to add, mostly when I stray from the path. Then I deserve the lesser, though necesary instruction.

Thanks for the invite, I do always feel welcome with the LDS family. They are gracious and kind, and more times than not, do care about the orphans (non members).

Thanks for your post Paul "ray of sunshine" Ray

son

[Paul Ray]

I think you are in the best church that could bring you into the church of the First born, but unless you have been to that church and back, you are still on the track. Hey that rhymed.

I have been there and back, and now I"m back there again.

I now want to be in the group that Jesus is with all of the time.

Maybe there is no separation in God's eyes, and it is a man made separation or maybe a satanic separation in order to keep the oneness from happening.

I think all people can be classified and categorized by what sets them apart, if there is anything, and right now we are not one in every way.

I feel like I am one with all the churches, and that doesn't involve being a member of any. How is that?

By being one with all of the churches, are you referring to being in agreement with all of them about everything in every way?

Somehow I don't think so, because I believe that's impossible, unless you change your mind all the time.

... which I suppose is possible.

I can go into any church and worship with anyone, or worship alone, or driving, or sitting here.

Okay. I think I see what you meant now.

I can also worship how I please regardless of how other people worship.

Could a EV do that (not with cult members), Would a LDS do that (sometimes)? but without some judgement of ours is better? varies.

Yep, I agree. I think it varies. Different strokes for different folks, I sometimes say.

I require continuous guidance as well, my guide for the most part is Christ (His Spirit). Sometimes a messenger has something to add, mostly when I stray from the path. Then I deserve the lesser, though necesary instruction.

I deserve nothing... literally. All I get is by the grace of God. He owes me nothing.

Thanks for the invite, I do always feel welcome with the LDS family. They are gracious and kind, and more times than not, do care about the orphans (non members).

You're always welcome, as far as I am concerned.

Thanks for your post Paul "ray of sunshine" Ray

You're very welcome.

Give me a hug, now.

Now tell me "bye bye"

I'll see you later.

[MasterMahan]

Maybe there is no separation in God's eyes, and it is a man made separation or maybe a satanic separation in order to keep the oneness from happening.

I feel like I am one with all the churches, and that doesn't involve being a member of any. How is that?

I can go into any church and worship with anyone, or worship alone, or driving, or sitting here.

Could a EV do that (not with cult members), Would a LDS do that (sometimes)? but without some judgement of ours is better? varies.

I don't know you well enough, but I hope your just playing the devils advocate here.

However, if not, then you are like someone who goes from school to school, class to class,...doesn't matter where, or who is teaching...wherever your little heart pleases, learning as much as possible. Yet, you fail to see that if you don't actually register for a class at a given school, do the work, and take the tests, you will never get your degree. Without that degree, what you are doing is rather pointless. Yes, you may have gained knowledge, but when you walk in for that job interview without that diploma, you're not going to get the job. That's just the way it is.

If you believe in the Bible, at least, then you should understand that the Lord does not work in your whimsical ways. He does care, and there is a separation in His eyes...it's spelled out for you, you can't miss it. If you do choose, however, to keep on your own merry way, then I'm afraid to say that you will be one of those unfortunate souls to whom the Lord will say, 'I know you not'.

[MasterMahan]

I guess I'm not making myself understood, likely because I'm not as up on the vernacular as I once was. In what form did you receive this witness? Was it a physical manifestation?

Thanks again for your responses. I doubt we will have much common ground, but I'm always interested in learning more about others' religious conversions.

Do you believe in the Bible? If not, it is kind of pointless to have such conversations with you. If so, then you should be well aware of what a witness is, and where it comes from.

[Lightbearer]

So you are saying that GBH has the testimony that God appointed him? I thought it was the council.

I would add that if the President obtained the powers of the priesthood it would go a long way to show his fruits are one with the proclamations, of which there are not too many prophecies attached to his term.

I am saying that I have a testimony by the power of the Holy Ghost that Gordon B. Hinckley was appointed by God to be the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (commonly refered to as the "Mormon Church" much like the Church in former times was refered to as "Christians") It is the same Church that Christ established in the meridian of time, that fell into apostasy and was driven into the wilderness until the people were worthy enough for His Church to be restored with the authority to perform ordinances, by those called of God...as was Aaron. (Who by the way received his priesthood under the hand of a Prophet named Moses.) President Hinckley was ordained an Apostle under the hands of the current prophet at the time. When he became the senior member of the Council of the Twelve Apostles he was ordained under the hands of the twelve as the President in the first presidency of the Church. I am not sure what fruits you are refering to, I think the building of 100 plus temples, the establishment of the perpetual education fund, the proclamation on the family, and his wise council on many topics...I am not sure what you are looking for? A burning bush? Parting the Red Sea? Walking on water?

The Prophet John the Baptist was considered by Christ to be the greatest prophet, and yet I have never heard too many prophecies attached to his term. Or for that matter any miracles, his coming was declared by an angel (angelic ministrants?) He was a voice crying in the wilderness...He declared faith in the lamb of God, repentance and...Baptism. That is known as an ordinance of the Gospel, a covenant that we make when we enter in at the sheepfold instead of trying to "climb up some other another way."

That message (Faith in Christ, repentance from sin, and Baptism for the remission of sins) has come from all the Prophets, who were true prophets. One last quote:

(Moroni 10:32-33) "Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God.

And again, if ye by the grace of God are perfect in Christ, and deny not his power, then are ye sanctified in Christ by the grace of God, through the shedding of the blood of Christ, which is in the covenant of the Father unto the remission of your sins, that ye become holy, without spot."