Oneness Of God

[johnny]

Hammer,

The NT teaches that The Father gave Christ 'these' so that they could be one as Christ and His Father are one.

What do you mean the Father gave Christ 'these' ... what is 'these'?

Christ is God. Do you need references or do you read the NT?

Is Christ Elohim or Jehovah?

Who is your God ... is it the Father or the Son?

[Son]

Father forgive them they know not what they do.

This is my Son in whom I am well pleased.

A Father is not His son, it is well that the Son be as His Father.

We can be one with our Father, we know scripture says this. It doe not make us God almighty but part of God, like Jesus is. Part of not all of. He keeps His separate personage while he is one in principal, purpose and power.

Why is this so challenging. If we make Christ God Almighty, then we can't really be one with Him. It changes the meaning of so many truths.

Why would Jesus say call me not good, there is one that is good, the Father.

[mickismommy]

Romans 15:

16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.

17 I have therefore whereof I may glory through Jesus Christ in those things which pertain to God.

â?¢ â?¢ â?¢

19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.

You will notice what I have put in red. Is it the gospel of Christ or the Gospel of God? Christ is God. It is His gospel.

Hammer, forget it. johnny and other EV's have a completely different understanding of these scriptures. To start a dispute using these scriptures is unfruitful. I have tried to share what I see as the LDS position, but johnny seems to like setting any detailed explainations of our beilifs aside and he is settled on his one liners. His saying that we believe in three Gods is like me saying the Trinity is a fancy way of believing in modalism. He does not realize that by discrediting us and not listening to a word we have to say, he is really making himself look bad and he is not being a good representative of his religion.

I am sorry, johnny, but I am frusterated with you! grrr.

MM

[johnny]

Son,

We can be one with our Father

Those joined unto the Lord are one spirit (1Cor 6).

1Cor 6

[17] But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

[19] What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

Why is this so challenging.

Is it challenging to believe that their is one God and that God was manifest in the flesh?

Who was manifest in the flesh ... was it Elohim or Jehovah ... was it the Father or the Son?

1Tim.1

[1] Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;

[2] Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

1Tim.2

[5] For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

1Tim.3

[16] And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

[Hammer]

Son,

We can be one with our Father

Those joined unto the Lord are one spirit (1Cor 6).

1Cor 6

[17] But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

[19] What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

Why is this so challenging.

Is it challenging to believe that their is one God and that God was manifest in the flesh?

Who was manifest in the flesh ... was it Elohim or Jehovah ... was it the Father or the Son?

1Tim.1

[1] Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;

[2] Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

1Tim.2

[5] For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

1Tim.3

[16] And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

It would help if you used the Spirit to discern the meanings of the scriptures. Maybe you are making a really good case for having the BofM?

It appears so to me.

[Son]

Son,

We can be one with our Father

Those joined unto the Lord are one spirit (1Cor 6).

1Cor 6

[17] But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

[19] What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

Why is this so challenging.

Is it challenging to believe that their is one God and that God was manifest in the flesh?

Who was manifest in the flesh ... was it Elohim or Jehovah ... was it the Father or the Son?

1Tim.1

[1] Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;

[2] Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

1Tim.2

[5] For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

1Tim.3

[16] And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

God standeth in the congregation of the mighty He judgeth among the gods. Psalms 82:1

Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scriptures cannot be broken; say ye of Him, who the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the son of God." John 10:34-36

Yes Jesus is a God but not God almighty. The term God means creator. God is not God's name. It is His title.

There is truly only one God Almighty, but many gods. If every seed produces after its own kind. Then God makes Gods. But not all seeds will grow into fruition or completion.

The parable of the Sower explains the depth of this.

[johnny]

Hammer,

It appears so to me.

It appears to me you do not know who was manifest in flesh?

Again I ask who was manifest in the flesh ... was it Elohim or Jehovah ... was it the Father or the Son?

Do you know who your God is?

1Tim.3

[16] And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

[johnny]

Son,

Yes Jesus is a God but not God almighty.

Is Jesus your God ... how many Gods do you have?

Thomas said Jesus was his God.

[selek]

Johnny

Knock it off- you're badgering.

I will remind you one more time that this is not a forum for preaching and proselytizing the Saints, but for dialogue.

Now- add something substantive or take a breather.

[selek]

One other thing- when we speak in political terms of the Bush administration, we frequently say that the administration did this, or the administration did that. There are many, many people in the administration, but only one adminstration.

So too is the term God or Godhead- three separate personages, but only one GOD.

That is the basic LDS understanding of the situation- we can cite many scriptures to support our position without the semantic, linguistic, and metaphysical contortions you inherited from your Greek forebearers.

If you don't like our position, don't join the Church.

But don't bother coming here to pester us about it either.

[Son]

Son,

Yes Jesus is a God but not God almighty.

Is Jesus your God ... how many Gods do you have?

Thomas said Jesus was his God.

Good for Thomas

I have one Father and He is a God. I have one Saviour and He is a God. I have one Holy Spirit and He is a God.

Now can you comment on the scripture that was posted or was that your comment?

[johnny]

selek,

So too is the term God or Godhead- three separate personages, but only one GOD.

You say the term Godhead means "three separate personages" but this does not fit scripture. Were their "three separate personages" dwelling bodily in Christ (Col 2:9)?

Col 2

[9] For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

[Son]

selek,

So too is the term God or Godhead- three separate personages, but only one GOD.

You say the term Godhead means "three separate personages" but this does not fit scripture. Were their "three separate personages" dwelling bodily in Christ (Col 2:9)?

Col 2

[9] For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

I know this was for Selek but I can't help myself.

And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

Ephesians 3:19

yes the spirit is most necessary for discernment, for every scripture is only edified and digested by the spirits guidance.

So when I'm filled with all the fulness of God, will I still be Son?

[johnny]

Son,

Good for Thomas

I have one Father and He is a God. I have one Saviour and He is a God. I have one Holy Spirit and He is a God.

I am still not clear, who do you believe is your God ... if their is "a God" and "a God" and "a God"?

Now can you comment on the scripture that was posted or was that your comment?

I did not comment because I agree with the scriptures your posted. The Catholic Church teaches:

460 - The Word became flesh to make us "partakers of the divine nature": [2 Pt 1:4] "For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God." "For the Son of God became man so that we might become God." "The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods"

260 - John 17 reveals that men can enter into the unity of the Blessed Trinity. Men are called to be a dwelling for the Most Holy Trinity.

2825 - Men can unite their will to the Son's will. United with Jesus and with the power of his Holy Spirit, we can surrender our will to him becoming one spirit with him, and thereby accomplish his will.

[Son]

Son,

Good for Thomas

I have one Father and He is a God. I have one Saviour and He is a God. I have one Holy Spirit and He is a God.

I am still not clear, who do you believe is your God ... if their is "a God" and "a God" and "a God"?

Now can you comment on the scripture that was posted or was that your comment?

I did not comment because I agree with the scriptures your posted. The Catholic Church teaches:

460 - The Word became flesh to make us "partakers of the divine nature": [2 Pt 1:4] "For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God." "For the Son of God became man so that we might become God." "The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods"

260 - John 17 reveals that men can enter into the unity of the Blessed Trinity. Men are called to be a dwelling for the Most Holy Trinity.

2825 - Men can unite their will to the Son's will. United with Jesus and with the power of his Holy Spirit, we can surrender our will to him becoming one spirit with him, and thereby accomplish his will.

I quoted Psalms 82 and John 10:34-36 what is your thought on those?

I like 2 Peter but the 460 explanation is strange to me, but on first read I don't disagree with it. So if we are to be Sons like Jesus, How do you get that a Son is the Father. And if we are Sons and Jesus is the Son and God then we all become God's. So you can be a God and not be worshipped, that's the one i'll ask to be.

Join our will into his will, surrender sounds to much like puppetry. I don't know if you are saying that but I think He wants us to Stand. Not unlike a Dad and son relationship here. I wouldn't want my son to surrender his will to me when he is grown into a fullness. His will, will stand on the priciples that are instilled in him.

But maybe I'm misunderstanding your 2825.

[mickismommy]

johnny,

I see your point, it is valid. My point of view is JUST AS VALID and you cannot explain it away with your one liners. My belief system does not fit into your little box. I am sick of you dismissing LDS belief. I donot ask you to agree with my POV, I simply ask for you to respect it. Can you not understand?

BTW, Christ is Jehovah, The Father is Eloheim. If, as I suspect you are trying to trap me into saying that LDS believe in multiple Gods, you can forget it. Jehovah and Eloheim and the Holy Spirit together are the One true God. We believe in a oneness of will, nature, and goodness, light ect. Our belief system is completely in tune with the Bible. You just refuse to see how that could be possible.

ARGH!

Next time you read the mentioned scriptures, please ask God to show you the Truth of these things, instrad of presuming that you are right.

MM

[johnny]

Son,

I quoted Psalms 82 and John 10:34-36 what is your thought on those?

Psalm 82 reveals their are gods.

John 10:34-36 reveals those who whom the word of God comes to are called gods.

I like 2 Peter but the 460 explanation is strange to me,

460 is essentially saying the same thing as John 10:34-36.

Join our will into his will, surrender sounds to much like puppetry.

Join our will into his will sounds like it is consistent with scripture, 1Cor 6 reveals:

1Cor 6

[17] But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

[19] What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

I don't know if you are saying that but I think He wants us to Stand. Not unlike a Dad and son relationship here.

The relationship is more like:

1Cor 6

[16] What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.

[Son]

Son,

I quoted Psalms 82 and John 10:34-36 what is your thought on those?

Psalm 82 reveals their are gods.

John 10:34-36 reveals those who whom the word of God comes to are called gods.

I like 2 Peter but the 460 explanation is strange to me,

460 is essentially saying the same thing as John 10:34-36.

Join our will into his will, surrender sounds to much like puppetry.

Join our will into his will sounds like it is consistent with scripture, 1Cor 6 reveals:

1Cor 6

[17] But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

[19] What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

I don't know if you are saying that but I think He wants us to Stand. Not unlike a Dad and son relationship here.

The relationship is more like:

1Cor 6

[16] What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.

Ahh, not puppetry, submission to a better way. God's way. This would keep the ego self humble.

Did we actually agree that there are gods, but only One God Almighty that we are to worship?

[johnny]

Son,

Did we actually agree that there are gods

Of course their "are gods", Our God is

Deut 10

[17] For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:

only One God Almighty that we are to worship?

The Early Church worshipped the Son,

Matt 28

[17] And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.

[18] And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

[Son]

Son,

Did we actually agree that there are gods

Of course their "are gods", Our God is

Deut 10

[17] For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:

only One God Almighty that we are to worship?

The Early Church worshipped the Son,

Matt 28

[17] And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.

[18] And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

so it is semantics.

Did Christ ever say to worship him? Not that I have a problem with that, but did He? Everything I have studied He always pointed to the Father.

[johnny]

Son,

so it is semantics.

What do you mean it is semantics?

Did Christ ever say to worship him?

It appears Christ did not have a problem with it ...

John 20

[28] And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Not that I have a problem with that, but did He?

How many Gods' do you worship ... do you worship the Son?

I worship one God in trinity and the trinity in unity.

[Son]

Son,

so it is semantics.

What do you mean it is semantics?

Did Christ ever say to worship him?

It appears Christ did not have a problem with it ...

John 20

[28] And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Not that I have a problem with that, but did He?

How many Gods' do you worship ... do you worship the Son?

I worship one God in trinity and the trinity in unity.

Semantics as to God the Father, God the Son if there are many gods. Jesus certainly is a God

I worship One God - The Father, if that includes the Son to you, then the Son as well. But as posted in the Perfection thread, Stephen saw Christ standing on the right hand of God. They occupy different space.

yes?

[johnny]

Son,

Jesus certainly is a God,

The Son is not "a God", he is "God" (John 1:1).

I worship One God - The Father, if that includes the Son to you, then the Son as well.

Could you explain ... it sounds like you worship two Gods if the LDS church teaches that the Son and the Father are seperate Gods.

But as posted in the Perfection thread, Stephen saw Christ standing on the right hand of God.

When Stephen called upon God, he said Lord Jesus.

Acts 7

[59] And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

They occupy different space.

yes?

They are distinct persons but they are not distinct Gods like the LDS church teaches.

The New and the Old Testament reveals that their is only one God.

[Rancors&cheese]

Could you explain ... it sounds like you worship two Gods if the LDS church teaches that the Son and the Father are seperate Gods.

That's obviously what you'd like to think, but reality does not agree. LDS pray to the Father and no one else. It's as simple as that.

[Son]

Son,

Jesus certainly is a God,

The Son is not "a God", he is "God" (John 1:1).

that is where the semantics kicks in.

it sounds like you worship two Gods if the LDS church teaches that the Son and the Father are seperate Gods.

I don't know if the LDS teaches that or not. But I believe they are both Gods, When I pray (worship) it is to the Father.

When Stephen called upon God, he said Lord Jesus.

I think you may be reading that differently than I, none the less.

In Acts verse 55-56 it states;

But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God.

And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

Well I think we agree, they occupy different space, Christ could say Hi to someone, and God could say Hi as well. At different times. They have their own voice boxes, Spiritually speaking.