liz3564 Posted May 16, 2006 Author Posted May 16, 2006 Don't confuse understanding with a cavalier attitude on my part. I don't think anyone could confuse you with being cavalier. I have really enjoyed your participation in the discussion. You have given a very sensitive male view. And, it is obvious you love your wife very much.
liz3564 Posted May 16, 2006 Author Posted May 16, 2006 All this "what if" stuff is really not necessary. We don't know exactly how things are going to be arranged in the Celestial Kingdom, except that it will be joy beyond what we can imagine. Since polygamy isn't currently in practice, the whole thread is a "what if" situation.I don't think it's unnatural to wonder what things will be like and have a sounding board to communicate feelings regarding it. That's really what this thread is all about.
charity Posted May 16, 2006 Posted May 16, 2006 liz, most of the arguments opposed to plural marriage seem to me to be the best reasons for it.We are here to learn, to improve, to overcome base, selfish motives and become better people, people who are worthy to receive all the Father has. What better way to do all that than to be placed in a position where we have to work to not be jealous, not be possessive, not be selfish.
alannasaunt Posted May 16, 2006 Posted May 16, 2006 Since polygamy isn't currently in practice, the whole thread is a "what if" situation. Well, unless you consider the remarriage of widowers or divorced (but still sealed) men in the temple.
alannasaunt Posted May 16, 2006 Posted May 16, 2006 liz, most of the arguments opposed to plural marriage seem to me to be the best reasons for it.We are here to learn, to improve, to overcome base, selfish motives and become better people, people who are worthy to receive all the Father has. What better way to do all that than to be placed in a position where we have to work to not be jealous, not be possessive, not be selfish. There are many occurrences in the scriptures of people being called to make sacrifices or suffer hardships in order to learn a lesson. The difference I see here is that those other instances (disease, poverty, persecution, etc) have the promise of an end. This is one sacrifice, that according to our current understanding, will be expected to last forever.
liz3564 Posted May 16, 2006 Author Posted May 16, 2006 liz, most of the arguments opposed to plural marriage seem to me to be the best reasons for it.We are here to learn, to improve, to overcome base, selfish motives and become better people, people who are worthy to receive all the Father has. What better way to do all that than to be placed in a position where we have to work to not be jealous, not be possessive, not be selfish. And Charity, I agree with you in the abstract.And you obviously have reached a higher element of understanding than I have in that regard.But I don't think it's necessarily "wrong" to be in love with my husband, and have a special partnership with him that is unique to us and want to keep it that way.If I ever did have to practice the law of plural marriage, I hope that I would be able to gain the type of insight you seem to have mastered.I'm definitely not there yet.
Zakuska Posted May 16, 2006 Posted May 16, 2006 I think it comes with age and experience Liz I do find my self falling in love with my wife again and again. And then getting mad at her and sleeping in the dog house. PS. We could always consider the biblical alternative. To lock widows away in widowhood have them dawn the mark of black.
liz3564 Posted May 16, 2006 Author Posted May 16, 2006 I think it comes with age and experience Liz OK....I'm 42 and have been married for 20 years. I guess it's going to take a lot more age and a lot more experience! LOL
onelowerlight Posted May 16, 2006 Posted May 16, 2006 QUOTE (liz3564 @ May 16 2006, 10:52 AM) Since polygamy isn't currently in practice, the whole thread is a "what if" situation.Well, unless you consider the remarriage of widowers or divorced (but still sealed) men in the temple. Actually, I believe that these polyandrous situations which have unintentionally arisen will be anulled before the resurrection. Therefore, I don't see this as a thread on polyandry.Also, I don't see much use in comparing polygamy with polyandry because I believe they are both fundamentally different. Kind of like the difference a child sees between getting a new baby sister or a new baby brother. To an outsider, there doesn't seem to be a lot of a difference, but to the child, there are worlds of difference.This is becaue of the differences between male and female genders, and male and female gender roles. A woman would handle multiple spouses much differently than a man, and a man would have a very different relationship with brother-husbands than a woman would with sister-wives. This is all because of the gender differences.Because of this, it doesn't make much sense to me to think of being in a polyandry - and even if I did, I don't think that the comparisons would be valid.
onelowerlight Posted May 16, 2006 Posted May 16, 2006 By the way, nobody has touched my question:What do the scriptures have to say about the exclusivity of marriage? Exactly what kind of marital exclusivity is discussed in the scriptures, and how does that differ from modern notions?
onelowerlight Posted May 16, 2006 Posted May 16, 2006 QUOTE (Zakuska @ May 16 2006, 11:05 AM) I think it comes with age and experience Liz OK....I'm 42 and have been married for 20 years. I guess it's going to take a lot more age and a lot more experience! LOL Yeah - I'd give you about another million years or so.
alannasaunt Posted May 16, 2006 Posted May 16, 2006 QUOTE (liz3564 @ May 16 2006, 10:52 AM) Since polygamy isn't currently in practice, the whole thread is a "what if" situation.Well, unless you consider the remarriage of widowers or divorced (but still sealed) men in the temple. Actually, I believe that these polyandrous situations which have unintentionally arisen will be anulled before the resurrection. Therefore, I don't see this as a thread on polyandry.Also, I don't see much use in comparing polygamy with polyandry because I believe they are both fundamentally different. Kind of like the difference a child sees between getting a new baby sister or a new baby brother. To an outsider, there doesn't seem to be a lot of a difference, but to the child, there are worlds of difference.This is becaue of the differences between male and female genders, and male and female gender roles. A woman would handle multiple spouses much differently than a man, and a man would have a very different relationship with brother-husbands than a woman would with sister-wives. This is all because of the gender differences.Because of this, it doesn't make much sense to me to think of being in a polyandry - and even if I did, I don't think that the comparisons would be valid. Hey onelowerlight, I could be a smartie pants and just say this was your social conditioning... Instead, I'll just ask what your post has to do with the quote. (actually, i'm not surprised at your take on polyandry. it seems most men would be prepared to dish but couldn't take it. that's not a flame, just an observation. really, a woman would probably do well with more than one husband, but we are care takers by nature...multiple hubbies would be just more to take care of. besides it would be justice.)BTW, polygamy (multiple spouses) includes polyandry (multiple husbands), what is usually practiced is polygyny (multiple wives).
Zakuska Posted May 16, 2006 Posted May 16, 2006 I think it comes with age and experience Liz OK....I'm 42 and have been married for 20 years. I guess it's going to take a lot more age and a lot more experience! LOL WOW a lady sharing her age in public? Only on the internet! Im only 35. Come on guys and gals... the Animal Kingdom show us the pattern. 1 Alpha Male and a heram.
alannasaunt Posted May 16, 2006 Posted May 16, 2006 I think it comes with age and experience Liz OK....I'm 42 and have been married for 20 years. I guess it's going to take a lot more age and a lot more experience! LOL WOW a lady sharing her age in public? Only on the internet! Im only 35. Come on guys and gals... the Animal Kingdom show us the pattern. 1 Alpha Male and a heram. Zak,You may not want to turn to the animal kingdom as an example. There are some females that kill the males after mating with them.
Del March Posted May 16, 2006 Posted May 16, 2006 Thank you for feeling so comfortable sharing a story so personal. It feels like a million years away now I think that all of us in the Church who have active husbands at one time or another have truly felt like we are second to God when it comes to him fulfilling his callings.It's more than a feeling: it's a knowledge and a decision at the same time. I don't just feel like I am second: I AM second to God (actually, third to God and my husband himself, but I say second to simplify), that's both a fact and a decision, and I wouldn't want it any other way, now that I know what peace and joy come from it. Since I already have to share him with God, I don't want to have to share him with another woman, too! Heh Thing is, sharing my husband with God has brought so many blessings to me that I actually treasure this opportunity God gave me to sacrifice what is so precious to me. So I believe that if God asked me to sacrifice again, to share my husband with one or several other women, I would probably be inclined to believe Him, to trust Him. Since it's worked so well this time, I probably would have more faith that it will work well the next time too.Finding peace and happiness in sacrifice is something that God has been teaching me for quite a while now. He has asked me to sacrifice very dear things, and each time I accepted, I never had to regret it. In fact, my biggest regret is this one big challenge I mentioned earlier and that I failed to overcome, I failed to sacrifice the thing God asked from me. I failed to trust God completely, and I still regret it several years later. It turned out well in the end, but I can't help but wonder what I might have missed, what even better things might have happened if I had found the faith to sacrifice. And I am determined to NEVER let such a thing happen, no matter how hard the sacrifice!Del
liz3564 Posted May 16, 2006 Author Posted May 16, 2006 This is becaue of the differences between male and female genders, and male and female gender roles. A woman would handle multiple spouses much differently than a man, and a man would have a very different relationship with brother-husbands than a woman would with sister-wives. This is all because of the gender differences.Because of this, it doesn't make much sense to me to think of being in a polyandry - and even if I did, I don't think that the comparisons would be valid. The reason I posed the question is because I was honestly interested in how men would feel if the situation was reversed...and, if they were accepting of the situation, how they would resolve the jealousy issue of sharing their spouse in their own mind. I asked the same question of the ladies who supported polygamy. I was not trying to change the direction of the thread or make unfair comparisons. Dadof7 understood where I was going, if you take a look at his earlier response.
Zakuska Posted May 16, 2006 Posted May 16, 2006 alannasaunt,Well don't we have predators like that in our own society. The black widow ladies?Liz,Its intresting that in D&C 132 this is compared with Abraham sacrificicing his son on an Altar of stones after knowing the law of God... though Shalt not Kill.I think it is only meant as a test to see if you would truly sacrifice your will (your time your talents et al) to the will of God.My mom is constanlty telling me stories she heard from her Grandmother who was living it and how difficult it really was. I am just Glad we are not required so much from.
alannasaunt Posted May 16, 2006 Posted May 16, 2006 alannasaunt,Well don't we have predators like that in our own society. The black widow ladies?Liz,Its intresting that in D&C 132 this is compared with Abraham sacrificicing his son on an Altar of stones after knowing the law of God... though Shalt not Kill.I think it is only meant as a test to see if you would truly sacrifice your will (your time your talents et al) to the will of God.My mom is constanlty telling me stories she heard from her Grandmother who was living it and how difficult it really was. I am just Glad we are not required so much from. Abraham wasn't required to actually follow through. Even if he had been, his pain would have ended in the next life when he got Isaac back.PM is the only sacrifice or test expected to last for eternity. There's no hope of every getting out.
liz3564 Posted May 16, 2006 Author Posted May 16, 2006 Come on guys and gals... the Animal Kingdom show us the pattern. 1 Alpha Male and a heram. Zak,You may not want to turn to the animal kingdom as an example. There are some females that kill the males after mating with them.
Del March Posted May 16, 2006 Posted May 16, 2006 Same question for the women who are at peace with plural marriage. How do you resolve picturing your husband with another woman?Do you just resolve yourself not to think about it...again..."for the greater good"?I'm not asking this question to bash you. I'm asking because I honestly want to know how you are able to resolve this in your own mind.First, what do you mean by "picturing my husband with another woman"? As Dadof7 explained, there are some things that simply shouldn't be pictured. Now, if you're just talking of every day kisses and hugs and laughing together, and going out together, then I guess my efforts would be two-fold:1- Be happy for him. If another woman's company gives him pleasure, then I should be happy that he's happy. I already do that with his love for guitars and guitar players for example: I encourage him to invest time and money in it, even though I personally couldn't care much less, simply because it makes him so happy. In return, he supports me in my hobbies that don't interest him, because he loves me and wants me to be happy, even if that means doing things that don't interest him.2- Focus on what I receive, not on what others receive, or what I don't receive. It's something that I have to do every day in this monogamous marriage anyway. I could indulge into jealous trips over what other husbands do and what mine doesn't, I could indulge into self-pity trips over the extra-time my husband spends at work, or the time he spends on his hobbies or whatever. But that would make me miserable. Instead, I choose to concentrate on what I do receive from him, on the good times we spend together, on all the positive stuff between us. (That doesn't mean I don't put limits sometimes )So if there was another woman, I could still concentrate on what I receive and enjoy my good times with my husband, instead of wishing it was me with him each time I see him with her.It's not so much a matter of "the greater good", it's more a matter of making both myself and my husband happy. Dwelling on thoughts and behaviours that make neither of us happy is damaging and counter-productive.And of course, I would also ask God to soften my heart and to give me charity Del
liz3564 Posted May 16, 2006 Author Posted May 16, 2006 Same question for the women who are at peace with plural marriage.
Del March Posted May 16, 2006 Posted May 16, 2006 The animal kingdom? After watching Animal Planet for a few months, I'm amazed and bemused at the crazy things that happen there Some animals are pretty straight-forward machos, like the big cats, but some others are right little devils where marital life is concerned, especially on the female side Del
Del March Posted May 16, 2006 Posted May 16, 2006 I told Charity the same thing. I admire your ability to be able to do this. I guess I have a long way to go in where my spiritual development needs to be.Think of it this way: you're in fact extremely lucky, because this area where you still have to develop is not something that will likely come and bite you tomorrow That can't be said of all problematic areas Just trying to make you feel better Honestly, we are all so imperfect! What does it matter if one of your "imperfections" is more visible than mine?? Just because it SEEMS like I am "ahead of you" on that one particular matter doesn't mean anything really, on an eternal scale. I'm not going to be translated to the City of Enoch or anywhere, any time soon, believe me Del
Zakuska Posted May 16, 2006 Posted May 16, 2006 Come on guys and gals... the Animal Kingdom show us the pattern. 1 Alpha Male and a heram. Zak,You may not want to turn to the animal kingdom as an example. There are some females that kill the males after mating with them. What about bees? There is the Queen Bee surrounded by all of the little drones and worker bees.Hmmm...maybe Zak's right. We should look at the animal kingdom more!
liz3564 Posted May 16, 2006 Author Posted May 16, 2006 Just trying to make you feel better Honestly, we are all so imperfect! What does it matter if one of your "imperfections" is more visible than mine?? Just because it SEEMS like I am "ahead of you" on that one particular matter doesn't mean anything really, on an eternal scale. I'm not going to be translated to the City of Enoch or anywhere, any time soon, believe me Del Thanks! And, seriously, I appreciate everyone's views. This thread has helped me sort through some things. This is an issue that has haunted me for years.It really helps to read other people's insights.
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