Does the Bible teach the doctrine

[johnny]

BCSpace and Zakuska,

Could you explain the following verses in Gen 2 in terms of Father, Mother and offspring

Gen 2

[7] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

[21] And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;

[22] And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

[23] And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

[johnny]

David Bokovoy,

When are men in the "lowest parts of the earth" ... is it before or after they are formed?

[Zakuska]

"and he took one of his ribs"

Can be read in a mirad of ways.

[Makarios]

Nope.  That is yellow journalism.  You are assuming that LDS doctrine states that God is the literal Father of our physical bodies which is not what we teach.  Try again.

Then please show me the text that states God is the literal father of our pre-existent spiritual bodies (whatever those are). You cannot do this without bringing in LDS assumptions about the meaning of 'Father.'

[Makarios]

All 3 are attested to in Scripture. But you don't beleive your bible... ist just a bunch of fluffly symbolized fary tales.

Two are, the other is not (guess which one).

[Makarios]

Johhny does not discuss.  He Parrots anything that is contra LDS position. Even if it is attested to by Catholic Dogma.

Well then, he certainly should read up on Father Brown, the famed author of the ABD.

[Kevin Graham]

== You cannot do this without bringing in LDS assumptions about the meaning of 'Father.'

Hmmm. Father means ...father. Is that really just an "LDS" assumption?

[Makarios]

Now here is something even more interesting.  Here is the Lexiconal usage of Father ('Pater' of spirits) Hebrews 12:9...

1) generator or male ancestor

a) either the nearest ancestor: father of the corporeal nature, natural fathers, both parents

There are other possiblities, but Strong's and Thayer's applies the above only to Hebrews 12:9.

Incontrovertable proof that the Bible says God the Father is the literal Father of our spirits.

Edit: Check this out. I failed to notice originally that in this Hebrews 12:9 case 'Pater' is plural having reference to both father AND mother. Hmmmmmm.....

oops, you left a few definitions out:

pater

1) lit. (a) as an immed. male ancestor (MT 4.21); ( as a more remote or racial ancestor (fore)father, progenitor (MT 3.9);

(2) as a title for God;

(a) as the creator and sovereign

ruler of all (JA 1.17);

( as the Father of Jesus Christ (LU 2.49);

© as the Father of Christians (RO 1.7);

(3) fig.; (a) of spiritual fatherhood (1C 4.15);

( as a title of honor or respect (AC 7.2);

© as the first of a class

of persons archetype, founder (RO 4.11);

(d) of the devil as the first of the class of persons who partake of his

nature as murderers, liars, etc. leader, archetype, model (JN 8.44).

Friberg Lexicon

I did not insert the smilies, they came over when I cut and pasted.

[Makarios]

Don't hold your breath BC Space. They'll wave their hand and ignore it anyways. Pretend the bible doesn't mean what it says it means.

Fortunatley you never ignore posts when you have been shown incorrect.

[David Bokovoy]

Hello Makarios,

Then please show me the text that states God is the literal father of our pre-existent spiritual bodies (whatever those are). You cannot do this without bringing in LDS assumptions about the meaning of 'Father.'

Clearly your comment shows that you have ignored my posts. No hard feelings--though I did start the thread. Just for you, I shall repost the following information which answers your question.

Genesis 4:1 should read,

[johnny]

David Bokovoy writes,

Genesis 4:1 should read,

[David Bokovoy]

Hello Johnny,

I

[Zakuska]

Johhny will only Parrot back Catholic Dogma.

[johnny]

David Bokovoy  writes,

I

[Zakuska]

Spirits are formed within the Father of spirits.

Zech. 12: 1

1 THE burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.

http://www.speedbibledictionary.com/kjvstr...HEB71.htm#S7130

from 'qarab' (7126); properly, the nearest part, i.e. the center, whether literal, figurative or adverbial (especially with preposition):--X among, X before, bowels, X unto charge, + eat (up), X heart, X him, X in, inward (X -ly, part, -s, thought), midst, + out of, purtenance, X therein, X through, X within self.

[johnny]

Zakuska ,

Zech 12:1 is not saying "Spirits are formed within the Father of spirits. " ... it is referring to withn the person.

Thanks for this verse because it does not idea preexistent human spirit ... it supports the idea that the soul is created immediately.

[Zakuska]

You'd better read the lexicon again, Johnny. He forms them within himself. Thus they eternaly exist with him.

[johnny]

Zakuska ,

Read the verse again ... it says "within him" ... it does not say saying anything about eternally existed ... its says formed ...

Again great verse ...

[Zakuska]

Read the verse in the hebrew.

The 'Him' has to do with God. Not with the 'man'.

Since God "formed" mans spirit with in himself. He is the literal father of the spirits of men and these spiirits are made from the same imortal substance he is.

[johnny]

Zakuska ,

The "Him" does not have to do with God ... the verse is clear

Zech. 12: 1

1 THE burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.

Again great verse ...

[Zakuska]

Read the hebrew Johnny. Oh I forgot you cant.

[johnny]

Zakuska ,

Read the Bible ... Again great verse ...

[Zakuska]

You have showed that you have not.

Poly want a cracker?

[johnny]

Zakuska ,

You have shown that preexistent human spirit is not supported by the Bible.

[Zakuska]

What was the spirit made out of that God formed?

And how long was if formed within God before it fell to earth in a Mortal body (ie was sown into corruption)?