MiserereNobis

On 5/25/2026 at 5:44 AM, 3DOP said:

Navidad. 

This thread is bringing up old and rarely recalled memories. That first church I went to? It was nearest my house. I had picked up a friend from the other side of town one Sunday morning to go to a church. Everytime we spotted one, I would lost my nerve. After going all the back towards where I lived...I knew there weren't  any more places to go. 

The preacher had a Scofield and was studying the book of Revelation. I was interested in that through Hal Lindsay. Within a year I was with a bunch of young kids mainly from the South and Midwest who had grown up in that environment...Hyles-Anderson. I had not been in any states except on the West Coast. I came in January. This was in the Chicagoland area, after the blizzard that probably...the memories...late leaving Portland...finding a bus...and the roads...getting in around midnight...sleeping on the floor for a week...I stayed.

I am glad. It was a part of my continuing journey in and out of fringe Christianity. The pastor of that  church was what is now called a Sovereign Citizen. While I was at college he got locked up for for rolling around town with a license plate that said 1611 AV. For the rest of you, 1611 is the year of the translation of the Authorized Version, or King James Bible. He preached on the evils of insurance while I was away. Good night (that is a Hyles expression that I have retained.) There were people buying property up in the hills and building makeshift homes without permits, trying to make livings without Social Security cards but happy that they have a refuge when Antichrist takes over. He lived with his family in a school bus for a few years. Up in the hills.

I don't have regrets. Everything in my life has informed who I am now. I made my choices and many weren't what I would advise. Anyway, maybe this sheds light on my first reaction to Orthodox Christian.

Prophesy isn’t always connected with lunacy. I need to remember that. Again OC, I hope we don't run you off because of experiences. Keep your social. Get building permits, etc. I use a bank now. I don't use cash very often. So far, so 👍. 

Everybody I knew including the pastor eventually became more normal in less than ten years. But that last book of the New Testament? I will say this. It is easy to misunderstand. If it makes you crazy 🤪,  you have misunderstood something.

 

 

 

 

Could this anti-establishment attitude have anything to do with your foray into the Grateful Dead world? Those Oregon ‘93 shows were hot!

On 5/25/2026 at 8:00 AM, 3DOP said:

Successful error has this in common with truth. It is never ridiculous, merely misunderstood by outsiders who want it to be not merely wrong, but stupid on top of that.

I’ve always loved this phrase of yours. The Trinity may be wrong, but it’s not stupid. The brightest minds in Western civilization have believed it and argued for it. 

I miss mfbukowski. 

18 hours ago, Navidad said:

If I were to join the Catholic Church, I would not have to be rebaptized; they accept the validity of mine.

True, but it is impartial. You would have to be confirmed and then receive communion as well, and those are specific Catholic sacraments requiring Catholic priesthood. In the case of confirmation, it is traditionally performed by the bishop, though bishops often delegate to priests.

Do you believe Christians who have fences are wrong with their fences? 

Do you believe the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Church’s fences for 1500+ years were/are wrong?

 This comes across as a very contemporary Protestant view. How do you account for Christian history?

ETA: Our Mormon friends are very accommodating, and that is in the spirit of Christ. But sometimes hard questions of doctrine need to be addressed, hence Paul and all the following ecumenical counsels. 

On 4/1/2026 at 5:04 PM, bluebell said:

I wish they would cut sacrament meeting. It would go along way towards the ideal of the sacrament being the most important part of the meeting if the blessing and taking of it weren’t such a small part of the 60 minutes (and if the speakers weren’t front and center and the defacto center of the meeting)

This was my experience from the times I went to your services. The speakers were the practical point of the meeting, even if it was said otherwise. Do you think this is something that came from low church protestant roots? Or is there a doctrinal reason for it?

September 22nd is indeed a VERY important day.

It's Bilbo and Frodo Baggins birthday. Hobbit Day!

On 2/2/2026 at 10:29 AM, the narrator said:

Yeah, that was something I had never heard about and found delightful.

There are a few pages dedicated to Edwin and Norma Morrell, and he is named a dozen other places in different chapters.

They were both beautiful souls. 

21 hours ago, the narrator said:

This is the book for you then. The focus is local and non-GA members, which is the sort of Mormon history I find much more interesting and inspiring these days. Looking at a May release right now.

I imagine Czechoslovakia is well represented in the book. You have quite a history there. Yoga retreats as LDS recruitment is unexpected. Any mention of Edwin Morrell?

On 1/2/2026 at 8:25 PM, Pyreaux said:

Can't you see what the Church is doing? Sovereignty. We’d rather own the entire means of production, so we never have to depend on anyone. Never at the mercy of inflation and supply chain breaks

So, you have no objections to the historical Catholic accumulation of wealth? The Papal States? Vatican City?

Just checking for consistency 🙂

President Nelson

Because he acknowledged the centrality of Rome to Christianity when he dedicated the temple there and had all of the apostles attend (which, according to my quick research, is the first time that all 15 have gathered for a dedication outside of the US).

4 hours ago, Navidad said:

It is interesting to me that just yesterday we had a fine young (everyone is young compared to me) Catholic parish priest in our home. Through an intermediary friend, he asked permission to come and minister to us in our grief. We had a wonderful talk in which he provided much comforting and helpful  counsel. Then he asked us if he could pray for us. We said, "Certainly." He kissed his stole and put it on (over his Ecuadorian manta or poncho) and jeans - (I liked him for that). He proceeded to read to himself from what seemed to be a book of rites, anointed (my term) us with olive oil, and laid hands on each of us. According to my friend, who is some kind of elder in the parish, the priest was allowed by the Catholic Church to perform a formal ordinance for us in our grief because 1. he took the time in our chat to deem we were spiritually worthy of such, and 2. Our baptism was acceptable to the Catholic Church. We were blessed by his ministration (very similar to what our stake president and a retired mission president had done for us several weeks earlier). The way it was explained to me, he was able to perform a formal ordinance of the Church (Catholic) instead of a simple blessing or prayer because he deemed both us and our baptisms acceptable to allow him to do so. I believe I am interpreting his Spanish explanation of it all correctly. So there was both the idea of baptism and spirituality involved in that process. That is very Lutheran and in some ways consistent with other non-LDS churches for ordinances. For example, I was only ordained in the Baptist church after a time of examination of both my baptism and spiritual worthiness by a group of elders when I was 23 or so.

Hi Navidad,

Please accept my condolences for the loss of your son. May God grant you grace and peace.

As far as I can tell from your description, the explanation of your friend is correct but incomplete. It appears the priest administered the Sacrament of the Anointing of the Sick (previously known as Last Rites). This is a formal sacrament in the Catholic Church and thus there are rules that govern it.

The Code of Canon Law states in Canon 844 paragraph 4:

Quote

If the danger of death is present or if, in the judgment of the diocesan bishop or conference of bishops, some other grave necessity urges it, Catholic ministers administer these same sacraments licitly also to other Christians not having full communion with the Catholic Church, who cannot approach a minister of their own community and who seek such on their own accord, provided that they manifest Catholic faith in respect to these sacraments and are properly disposed.

As a non-Catholic, these conditions would have to be met for the sacrament to be licitly administered to you. The correct explanation of your friend is baptism and spiritual worthiness. That would cover you being a "Christian not having full communion with the Catholic Church" and being "properly disposed." What your friend left out were the other requirements: danger of death, inability to approach a minister of your own community, seeking it yourself, and a manifestation of Catholic faith towards the sacraments. Obviously I do not know if you can go to a minister of your own community and if you believe in the Catholic sacraments as a Catholic would. It is disappointing that the priest did not explain what he was doing, because how can one have faith in the sacrament and believe in it as a Catholic would if one does not know what the sacrament is?

I bring this up not to impugn you or detract from any good or grace you received from the experience, but to inform readers of how the sacraments in the Catholic Church are to be administered in situations such as these.

+PAX+

Jesse

“For the World is Hollow, and I Have Touched the Sky”

On 11/25/2025 at 1:17 PM, teddyaware said:

Some follow-up-up questions to the ones posed in my original post on this thread (see above):

1) If the Catholics and Protestants do in fact believe that the Lord Jesus Christ is fully human, in every sense of the word, how would it be possible to assert that the Lord is indeed fully human if the reproductive system of a human Father didn’t supply the paternal seed containing the human DNA that fertilized Mary’s ovum?

2) Is it possible to assert that the Lord is actually fully human if some sort of “lab grown” or “spiritually manufactured” spermatozoa impregnated Mary’s ovum without that fertilizing seed being the product of a human male reproductive system?

3) If the male seed that generated the Savior’s mortal body wasn’t the product of a human male reproductive system, wouldn’t it be more correct to say the Lord is actually a trans human hybrid and not fully human?

4) Even further, if in some way the Lord’s mortal body was miraculously produced without the need for some some kind of replicated spermatozoa, wouldn’t it be even more correct to say that he is a humanoid because the creator and manner of the creation of his body isn’t human? 

Miracles and mysteries, my guy.

I find it interesting that you gloss right over our paradoxical belief that Jesus was 100% human and 100% God, and then focus on minutia about sperm. If we're getting nitty gritty scientific, you could simply point out that something cannot be 100% this and 100% that at the same time.

Yet, Jesus was  

14 hours ago, Orthodox Christian said:

I don't believe that Orthodoxy is Catholicism's other lung, so I guess I too am a hold-out. 

The statement was that Christianity had two lungs: Catholicism and Orthodoxy. So no, you are not Catholicism's other lung   We are both lungs needed for the full breathing of Christianity. Wonderful expression of the Christian faith. 

I like pointing out to those who do not know that Catholicism has 24 churches and 6 liturgical rites, so we are much more than what people think of when they think Catholicism (but it's understandable, since the Latin/Roman Rite is the vast majority).

The KJV is beautiful prose. Do you use it because you believe it's the best translation theologically?

16 hours ago, Pyreaux said:

2nd Edition is best, 3rd is more complex with a ton of resources, 4th is dumbed down to appeal to World of Warcraft MMO players, the 5th is new and people are saying it's trying to appeal to LGBT people.

Campaigns

Forgotten Realms

The main section of the Realms is intended to be a generic D&D world. It has many similarities to medieval Earth. It also has enormous cities, many countries with foreign flavors, hordes of NPC's, and more room to maneuver than you'll ever need. There are also wild magic and dead magic zones, where magic can surge in power (and unpredictability) or not work at all. There are also a lot of supplements out for the core Realms.

DragonLance

The world of Krynn is fairly well-known, through the series of novels and modules which started it. Gold has little or no value there, as the world is on a steel standard. Clerics are relatively unheard of, as well, because the main focus for the world is the ongoing battle between the deities Takhesis and Paladine; other "normal" deities have been pretty much forgotten. In addition, as the name might suggest, dragons are more active here than elsewhere, as they are strongly polarized on the Takhesis-Paladine battle. There are also several time periods to adventure in; the time of the War of the Lance is only one. 

Spelljammer

In a nutshell, Spelljammer is D&D in outer space, but in more of the swashbuckler pirate genre than a hard science fiction one. Many of the typical D&D races of characters and villains are present, but many behave very differently from any you may have met before. In addition, Spelljammer may include adventuring on many of the other published game worlds, as spelljammers visit almost all of them from time to time. 

Ravenloft

Ravenloft is a world of gothic horror. It is located in the Demiplane of Dread, and fairly reeks of evil. Many who go there are corrupted and never return. Some new mechanics are fear and horror checks. A failed fear check involves running in abject terror. A failed horror check, well, lets just not talk about that right now. The mists of Ravenloft often gather up unwary travelers and take them to the demiplane, from whence half the fun is trying to find an exit which supposedly doesn't even exist. 

Dark Sun

Athas is a metal-poor desert world, which by itself makes life quite a challenge. Add to that the fact that almost everyone on the planet has some degree of psionic ability, and you get a pretty lethal world. Also, clerics are different from usual, in that they are either templars who are granted spells by their sorcerer-kings or clerics who gain spells by worshipping the elements around them. Mages, too, are changed; all magic is powered directly by the life force of the world around them, which tends to be a detriment to the continued existence of any plants and animals in the area. 

Greyhawk

Greyhawk was the first widely-known campaign world. Flip through the guilds most of the named spells and magic items originated in Greyhawk. Until recently, the world was essentially a general, multi- fantasy-genre world, similar in that way to the Forgotten Realms, but with its own very distinct flavor. Latter supplements, however, have turned the world into a war-torn pile of smoking rubble, where basic survival is much more difficult than before the wars. Most Greyhawk players set their campaigns long before the wars. Since most of the modules published before the arrival of Forgotten Realms and DragonLance are actually set in Greyhawk, there is a wealth of information out there for gaming purposes. 

Planescape

This is basically the 2nd ed. revamp of the Manual of the Planes, but it is much more than that, as well. This setting is designed for entire campaigns run on the planes themselves, with all the interesting beings that may involve. Characters may belong to any of a number of factions, which interact in a similar way to secret societies in Paranoia. Adventures are typically set in Sigil, an enormous city in the neutral center of the planes, and involve visits to one or more of the other planes. It also comes with its own lingo, so if you hear the occasional "cutter" (someone in the know) or "berk" (someone not in the know) comments, you'll know where they're from. 

 

You mention Ravenloft. I used to play the original module (published 1983) back in the day. It was so fun! I found a digital scan of it a few years ago when I was in a fit of nostalgia. I'll attach it for everyone's enjoyment.

It's a single file of 5.3 MB, which is too big, so I had to zip it to make it attachable.

ravenloft.pdf.zip

Wow, I'm reading through the comments section for the YouTube trailer and there are so many people who are saying this is pro-Israel propaganda. Not one mention of the LDS church.

And there are a lot of pro-Nazi comments, like the Axis was great, Nazi German was wonderful, etc.

@The Nehor, get in those comments and start punching people  

In the trailer, the bishop is wearing red (0:16 of the video). Was that common thing back then? Or are they just putting on some clerical vestments to make it obvious that he's a church leader.

It's interesting that the LDS church isn't mentioned in any of the trailers or ads.

2 hours ago, Calm said:

Nonmembers can be confused when it turns out there are more than 12 apostles though in my experience.

Yep. We're told that Christ's Church had 12 Apostles, so does the restored church. But then we find out there are 15, and sometimes even more. I remember being told that Peter, James, and John were the first presidency, but then that left a quorum of the 9?

This isn't an argument that you are wrong. It's just an observation that, at least in the past, you maybe simplified things to make your church organization seem the same as the NT.