Celebration Of Marriage Slc Ut March 26

[california boy]

CB, consider what your life would have been had you not married. Marriage taught you a lot about love, forgiveness, tolerance, etc. which you may not have learned in another situation. Had you been participating in the homosexual lifestyle in the 80s and 90s you might have been exposed to some serious if not deadly consequences. These threads tend to focus on the gay' monogamous couples who wish to adopt as if they were the vast majority. Past and current evidence of bars and bathhouses speaks to this inaccuracy .

I absolutely agree with you. I have learned so much from being married. Actually I have learned so much from being gay. I think there are lessons I maybe could have only learned from being gay. Important lessions like charity, love for everyone no matter who they are, forgiveness and so many more. Sometimes I think it was the best thing God could have given me. Maybe that is why I have no desire to "magically" change when I die.

I don't regret the time I was marriedl I am just not sure it was fair to my wife. She is as much a victim of the counsel given to me as I am. We were friends before we maried and are still friends. But didn't she deserve a different kind of husband? And maybe I should have never had children knowing that they would have a gay father. It is very hard for a Mormon to have a gay father and have to deal with the teachings of the church. I am still close to all of them and we have great times hanging out. But let's face it. A gay father is not the ideal either.

[Brenda]

CB, I have so much to say in response to your last few posts, I hardly know where to begin.

There are MANY marriages that are far from ideal -- probably the majority -- but the couples are committed and make them work. I cannot begin to list the couples in my own circles who struggle! This was a HUGE eye-opener early on for me. Is it fair that one couple has it easier than another? Is any handicap fair, either to the sufferer, or his/her spouse? Of course not. We hear of couples where one becomes sick or injured soon after they're married, but they stay together. Is this fair? No! Mortality never was fair. But eternity will be.

I believe you when you say the Church advised you to get married and that it would "cure" you. Was it wrong? Probably yes, in the short term. But what about the long term? What about eternity? THAT, and that alone, is the real concern here. That is what this church, or rather the gospel, is all about. The Plan of Salvation is the whole point, and doing our best in this life to keep from wrecking what can come after. You say that the Church has no place for you. But your lifestyle has no place in the hereafter. And the Church is trying to save you from that. And to think that all the blessings you can ever hope for won't be yours in eternity, IF you do your best to live God's laws, then all is lost. There is no point left. So is a cure possible? Yes! But probably not in this life.

It is NOT good for man to be alone, nor is it good for women to be alone. Nor is it good for children to lose their parents. Lots of things in this life are not good, but we do the best we can, and ALWAYS we must strive for the ideal. ALWAYS we must try to keep our marriages together, for better or worse, except in those cases of abuse or extreme sin.

I hear you when you say that heterosexuality is distasteful to you. I imagine the reverse for me, and I get it. But you were married to a woman and you had children together. Was that a hellish experience? If so, I hope your family never knows it. I hope your children at least THINK they were conceived in love. Because it's not about us. It's about them. It's about your wife. It's about others. It's about losing ourselves and as a result, ultimately finding ourselves again. And it's about serving and obeying God at all costs, because we know that in doing so, we are really serving our own long term happiness. That is God's only goal -- our happiness.

Is homosexuality a handicap? Can a homosexual relationship produce children? No. Can a homosexual relationship create a family with children who were not forced to sacrifice a parent? No. It may not be a handicap to a couple who never want children, but it will always be a handicap to the couples who do. And it will always be a handicap to the children.

Finally, you ask what to do with those gay families who are raising children. Like I said, I don't know. Some problems are too tangled to easily undo. This was created because a heterosexual couple conceived children then decided to split up. Then they decided to bring a new parent into the picture, expecting the children to happily sign on. They teach, by example, that God's eternal laws are hogwash. Because if the scriptures are wrong in this case ..... then we are allowed to pick and choose among the commandments because WE know better! .......... THAT has caused the sad demise of many civilizations before us. Anytime we think we know better than God, then we are headed for trouble, sooner or later.

So how do you fix it? Repentance and the atonement. Then you go forward in faith.

[california boy]

Brenda. You really are a sweet person and I know you write with love and compassion. I feel that. I have to ask you. What should I be looking forward to in the next life that would make me willing to be alone and celibate without my boyfriend that I love and share my life with?

[Brenda]

Brenda. You really are a sweet person and I know you write with love and compassion. I feel that. I have to ask you. What should I be looking forward to in the next life that would make me willing to be alone and celibate without my boyfriend that I love and share my life with?

Everything. Absolutely everything .... in the form of delayed gratification. But most of all, God's approval. It's a desire that most of us don't often think about because we focus so much on rewards. But our highest and greatest desire should be to simply please our Father in Heaven regardless of what we get in return. That would the purest and most unselfish love, and is exactly what he has for us.

May I add, I also regard you highly and recognize your effort to keep your family together until your children were raised. I understand that you simply want what we all want. And we too, all sin. All we can do is our best and let Christ make up the difference. Thank you for the kind words.

[california boy]

Everything. Absolutely everything .... in the form of delayed gratification. But most of all, God's approval. It's a desire that most of us don't often think about because we focus so much on rewards. But our highest and greatest desire should be to simply please our Father in Heaven regardless of what we get in return. That would the purest and most unselfish love, and is exactly what he has for us.

May I add, I also regard you highly and recognize your effort to keep your family together until your children were raised. I understand that you simply want what we all want. And we too, all sin. All we can do is our best and let Christ make up the difference. Thank you for the kind words.

Well I don't know what everything, absolutely everything means. Maybe that is the problem. No one has told me anything, absolutely anything that makes me want to strive for Celestial Glory.

[Calm]

Well I don't know what everything, absolutely everything means. Maybe that is the problem. No one has told me anything, absolutely anything that makes me want to strive for Celestial Glory.

Not even being one with God?

[Brenda]

Well I don't know what everything, absolutely everything means. Maybe that is the problem. No one has told me anything, absolutely anything that makes me want to strive for Celestial Glory.

To be honest, I wish I could say that my greatest reward would be to please God, but in my current very imperfect state, I just want my family forever. I don't care about all the other stuff, at this point. I can't even wrap my head around it! But I have to remember that what I cared about when I was 10, isn't the same as today ..... so I have to trust my Father, who loves me beyond comprehension and knows me far better than I know myself, when He says I'm going to want all that He has to give me.

We are.... to have joy. That's our promise. And God is working very hard to make that happen for us. He is our greatest advocate when too often, we seem hell-bent to be our own worst enemy. It's just really all about faith, trust, and humility that He knows more than we do.

[Brenda]

Added thought: Our lives involve a lot of repeating patterns. As a parent, we want certain things for our kids that, when they are young, they don't yet want for themselves. Yet we know they WILL want those things when they grow up. So we make rules, set boundaries, teach, etc. to make sure our kids don't mess things up for themselves before they reach adulthood. And when they finally get there, they see the wisdom and appreciate all those rules that they used to hate, and then repeat the pattern with their own kids.

It's exactly the same with us and our eternal parents.

[Brenda]

One more thought: California Boy, does what I say sound hateful? Can you understand the LDS perspective on gays? All we want is your happiness in all of eternity beyond this tiny sliver of mortality. Do you see why we don't deserve to be called hate-mongers, or homo-phobic? Do you see why we feel we are really on your side and how we are actually fighting for you? How can we advocate the gay lifestyle through sanctioning gay marriage, when we honestly believe it's eternally destructive to your soul? You can agree or disagree on our doctrine, but can you see that our motive is real love?