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merganzerman

Parable of Sheep and Goats and salvation requirements

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Yes, exactly, but only before man.

You see, the faith that saves is not our own faith.

We are saved by the "faith of Jesus Christ", and not our own.

For context, consider the very first verse in James chapter 2:

Wow, that is not what the scriptures teach. We are not saved by Jesus faith. We must have faith in Christ. Faith is a gift but we must still desire to have it.

And no, not only before men that is not what James says. You are not even engaging in my arguments. This is almost pointless.

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1 Peter 2:12 "Live such good lives among the pagans that, though they accuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us."

What does that have to do with anything? But I do love the writings of Peter, especially the following:
(2 Peter 2:20-22) "For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire."
Was Peter giving the Saints a warning because they were not saved? How can you "know the way of righteousness" and then sin against it and not be damned? This contradicts the idea that our righteous obedience means nothing to our salvation. Because if we sin or "wallow in the mire" then our faith becomes vain. So while our good works does not produce our salvation, it assures us that our faith is not vain or dead.

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The Mormon jesus is

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That chapter is about the proper motivation for doing works. Abraham was justified not because he intended on sacrificing Isaac, but because he had faith enough to DO what the Lord asked him, no matter how horrendous the deed appeared

Please note that the justification in this instance doesn't come BEFORE the works.

In the Book of Genesis, Abraham was declared righteous long BEFORE he offered up Isaac on the alter.

]

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This is pathetic juvenile attempt to say that "My Jesus can beat up your Jesus" What a Christ like post. I can just feel the love.

Well . . . . They do call it the "truth" in "love" ministry. In that post you see what they mean by "truth" and by "love". Just makes you want to join them doesn't it. :P

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What does that have to do with anything? But I do love the writings of Peter, especially the following:Was Peter giving the Saints a warning because they were not saved? How can you "know the way of righteousness" and then sin against it and not be damned? This contradicts the idea that our righteous obedience means nothing to our salvation. Because if we sin or "wallow in the mire" then our faith becomes vain. So while our good works does not produce our salvation, it assures us that our faith is not vain or dead.

This is another great verse of scriptures that destorys the idea that works are a product of salvation. IF it were so it would be impossible to "For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them".

For the very definition that I am told by the EV crowd is that to sin is to break the law. Which is true, but sinning is also not commiting sins of omision as well. This just shows that the path to salvation is one that must be renwed often. And that salvation does not occour the second we confess Jesus.

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In the Book of Genesis, Abraham was declared righteous long BEFORE he offered up Isaac on the alter.

]

Was that his only work of righteousness? Or was he righteous enough before then to have God speak to him personally?

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In the Book of Genesis, Abraham was declared righteous long BEFORE he offered up Isaac on the alter.

]

Only because Abraham was about to thrust the knife into his son. If Abraham had just sat at the base of the mountain and said "Yeah, Lord I trust you 100% and believe you" and did nothing else would Abraham have been justified?

This is the type of theology that I hear alot of EVies preach.

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In the Book of Genesis, Abraham was declared righteous long BEFORE he offered up Isaac on the alter.

Strange how Abraham was declared righteous so soon after paying his tithing. :P

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Oh where, oh where are the responses to my publications on grace, faith, and works of the law?

My dear sir, the reference within the New Testament to the Akedat Yitzchak obviously shows that the authors of the New Testament were using words such as pistis in a new and novel way that would make no sense to their audience, but would make perfect sense to a few denizens of internet message boards who are adherents to a subset of Western Christianity, several millennia after the books were initially authored.

It

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In the Book of Genesis, Abraham was declared righteous long BEFORE he offered up Isaac on the alter.

Very true. He was "declaried" righteous by the merits of Jesus, however when he nearly Sacrficed Isaac he was proven Righteous before God on his own merits. His faith was made Perfect. He showed God he would do anything he asked him to.

Much like Enoch.

Heb 11

5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

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I don't see anything disrespectful written there, would you care to give me your definition of respect?

What was the title of that blog and the month, can you remember? If not, don't worry about it, it would be too much to ask of you.

Off course you don't, because this is the cesspool that you have been living in for some time. I gave you the link. Do you need more? It was a very recent posting.

Edited to add,

How about if we change it around a little?

How foolish these Evangelicals like Echo are to reject God for a god of their own making who is nothing more than a fictitious being of no substance. Until Evangelicals like Echo understand who God really is, any discussion on any other matters is pointless. I would suggest that Mormons not waste their time with these folks and go and assist those Evangelicals who are truly looking to find God and salvation through the real Jesus.

Edited again to add.

Now did you feel the love and respect in that?

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I don't see anything disrespectful written there, would you care to give me your definition of respect?

What was the title of that blog and the month, can you remember? If not, don't worry about it, it would be too much to ask of you.

IF you can't see the lack of repsect going on in there I have to wonder if you know what respect means?

The "mormon god" Yeah that is real respectful. Also the blantent mis-representation, do you call that respectful??

Who wants a half-pint savior?
You call this respectful???
The Mormon jesus was born in Jerusalem (Alma 7:100
Here is one mis-represnetaion. The BoM does not claim that Jesus will be born in Jerusalem. Do you find this respectful?
Jesus was prayed to in the Bible and He told us to do so
I cannot find a single verse of scripture in the bible were Jesus tells us to pray to him. In fact the only time Jesus us tells us how to pray he specifically tells us to address "our Father who art in Hevean".

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This all seems like quite a departure from the initial thread (Vance, shame on you, you rascally thread derailleur), but

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Off course you don't, because this is the cesspool that you have been living in for some time. I gave you the link. Do you need more? It was a very recent posting.

Edited to add,

How about if we change it around a little?

How foolish these Evangelicals like Echo are to reject God for a god of their own making who is nothing more than a fictitious being of no substance. Until Evangelicals like Echo understand who God really is, any discussion on any other matters is pointless. I would suggest that Mormons not waste their time with these folks and go and assist those Evangelicals who are truly looking to find God and salvation through the real Jesus.

Edited again to add.

Now did you feel the love and respect in that?

You silly this is just how Jesus told us to do it. With lurve.

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This all seems like quite a departure from the initial thread (Vance, shame on you, you rascally thread derailleur), but

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You owe me a new keyboard now that I spewed food all over this one! :P

So, now not only do you have a half-pint religion (half empty, no doubt), you're looking for a new keyboard as well.

In all of my days of being a mother, I never...

BTW, Echo,

Welcome to the board. Please don't hold my posts against the LDS, as I am largely Mormon in name only (and have poor personal hygiene).

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So, now not only do you have a half-pint religion (half empty, no doubt), you're looking for a new keyboard as well.

In all of my days of being a mother, I never...

BTW, Echo,

Welcome to the board. Please don't hold my posts against the LDS, as I am largely Mormon in name only (and have poor personal hygiene).

Be sure that only half the keys work on any keyboard you buy for him. Check Surplus. :P

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Was that his only work of righteousness? Or was he righteous enough before then to have God speak to him personally?

Abraham was credited with righteousness just for believing God, nothing more.

Genesis 15:6 "Abram believed the LORD, and he credited it to him as righteousness."

Later ( the amount of time that passes between these two events can be calculated into close aproximation, in a large number of years later) Abraham offered up Isaac.

Genesis 22:9 " When they reached the place God had told him about, Abraham built an altar there and arranged the wood on it. He bound his son Isaac and laid him on the altar, on top of the wood"

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In the Book of Genesis, Abraham was declared righteous long BEFORE he offered up Isaac on the alter.

Do you mean Gen 15:6? Abraham isn't declared righteouss, but his believing that the Lord would do as he promised was counted unto righteousness. He then keeps on DOING works!

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Abraham was credited with righteousness just for believing God, nothing more.

Genesis 15:6 "Abram believed the LORD, and he credited it to him as righteousness."

Not quite true. He still had to get his wife Sarah pregnant. Or do you think God himself did the deed?

Abrahams "Beleif" was followed up by connubial action, other wise Sarahs womb would have remained just as dead as it always had been.

"Faith without works is dead."

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Abraham was credited with righteousness just for believing God, nothing more.

Genesis 15:6 "Abram believed the LORD, and he credited it to him as righteousness."

Was he believing in God when he paid his tithing? (Which occurred just before God declared him righteous.) Gen 14.

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Did Abraham obey God in Gen 12?

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Do you mean Gen 15:6? Abraham isn't declared righteouss, but his believing that the Lord would do as he promised was counted unto righteousness. He then keeps on DOING works!

Excellent point!

As an aside, isn't being counted unto righteousness similar to saying "thy sins are forgiven thee"?

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