Polygamy And Historical Context

[Calm]

There are many legalized actions (drinking, smoking, gambling, fornication, etc) that the Church does not approve of for its members. How would this be any different?

[Outshined]

If Polygamy becomes totally legalized, it will put the LDS Church in a very awkward position, a position that the Church does Not want to be put into.

I don't see how. If they legalize polygamy it would not affect the doctrines of the Church, any more than the legalization of same-sex marriage would.

[NoSmiles]

let stick to historical evidence

Okay. How about historical evidence that this was what actually commonly happened in LDS polygamous marriages?

There are some that claim LDS polygynous marriages give women freer rein (with, I believe, greated historical support) as it grants more independence (as is evidenced by many who went back east for education, some supported even by the other wives) and more choice (as in more options on who to marry which led to many choosing more financially secure situations).

Unlike some other societies' practices with polygyny, the women weren't restricted to solely one role--sexual/breeding--but engaged in multiple roles, polygyny freeing the women as well as the men from limitations that might have been imposed for purely sexual reasons.

What group only allowed women to --sexual/breeding--. Were they allowed to cook, raise children, earn money, and clean.

What influence did the occult converts have on polygamy in Mormonism??

[KevinG]

I don't think many people can see past their own context and their revulsion for something so foreign to them. The distinct difference between 19th century polygamy and modern polygamy is that one is ordained and ordered by God, for the raising of a righteouss generation (which is now seen throughout the Church) and has more to do with establishing annointed lineages than population. The modern version is not ordained of God or authorized through His channels. Neither was John Bennets version or other versions.

I won't be backed into a corner of taking God's commandments out of this. It is a matter of faith and obedience to God- as is very clear in the writings of the pioneers.

Regarding comparisons to the FLDS- Jeffs wasn't arrested for Polygamy, and arguably if his version didn't include forced marriages of minors it would be a darn site better for his followers.

[BlueDreams]

If Polygamy becomes totally legalized, it will put the LDS Church in a very awkward position, a position that the Church does Not want to be put into.

NoSmiles, how so?

For those who support that it was a "God given command", have you ever wondered what God or the Lds Church hoped to accomplish that would not have been accomplished with monogamy?

I don't think it would have to accomplish much of anything. But I think I also have to agree with CI. THere was a level of unity within the saints that had to be in place due to the deep prejudice and bias that would face them.

EDIT: Dof7 said it well as well.

With luv,

BD

[Calm]

let stick to historical evidence

Okay. How about historical evidence that this was what actually commonly happened in LDS polygamous marriages?

There are some that claim LDS polygynous marriages give women freer rein (with, I believe, greated historical support) as it grants more independence (as is evidenced by many who went back east for education, some supported even by the other wives) and more choice (as in more options on who to marry which led to many choosing more financially secure situations).

Unlike some other societies' practices with polygyny, the women weren't restricted to solely one role--sexual/breeding--but engaged in multiple roles, polygyny freeing the women as well as the men from limitations that might have been imposed for purely sexual reasons.

What group only allowed women to --sexual/breeding--. Were they allowed to cook, raise children, earn money, and clean.

What influence did the occult converts have on polygamy in Mormonism??

Rather than "sexual/breeding", I should have used "wife/mother/housekeeper".

I think many monogamous marriages of the day were limited to this as is evidenced by the description of marriage as slavery by many of the feminists then.

However, I was talking about some other non-European based cultures.

There are polygamous and monogamous cultures that haven't allowed women to own property in and other themselves or be involved in activity outside the family circle, IOW have only viewed women as property unable to participate in society outside of their family (extended or immediate) context.

LDS polygyny never limited women in that way, thus giving increased sexual freedom to both sexes.

I am curious. Did the book you cited limited the only benefit of polygyny to 'limiting women's power over men' or did it give other reasons as well?

[NoSmiles]

If Polygamy becomes totally legalized, it will put the LDS Church in a very awkward position, a position that the Church does Not want to be put into.

NoSmiles, how so?

You got the wrong guy here. But since you asked I think that if polygamy becomes legal the current leaders may or may not receive a

[NoSmiles]

Rather than "sexual/breeding", I should have used "wife/mother/housekeeper".

I think many monogamous marriages of the day were limited to this as is evidenced by the description of marriage as slavery by many of the feminists then.

However, I was talking about some other non-European based cultures.

There are polygamous and monogamous cultures that haven't allowed women to own property in and other themselves or be involved in activity outside the family circle, IOW have only viewed women as property unable to participate in society outside of their family (extended or immediate) context.

LDS polygyny never limited women in that way, thus giving increased sexual freedom to both sexes.

I am curious. Did the book you cited limited the only benefit of polygyny to 'limiting women's power over men' or did it give other reasons as well?

I do not know of any evidence that supports that LDS polygamy frees women by allowing women to study, own property, or have a career.(however I am not an expert) I do not even see how present LDS policy supports this notion. Has there been a study done that

[Deborah]

I am curious about this question by Ref:

For those who support that it was a "God given command", have you ever wondered what God or the Lds Church hoped to accomplish that would not have been accomplished with monogamy?

Any takers?

and I repeat what I already said: Very simply it was part of the restoration of all things including eternal marriage which included the covenant of plural wives as practiced by the ancient prophets. It had nothing to do with convenience or lack of it.

It wasn't "what the LDS Church hoped to accomplish." It was what God required at the time.

[Deborah]

What influence did the occult converts have on polygamy in Mormonism??

?????

What the heck does that mean?

[Deborah]

But since you asked I think that if polygamy becomes legal the current leaders may or may not receive a

[KevinG]

My opinion is they won't authorize it because of the mess were still making of monogamy. Until we honor our current marriage vows, and learn the difference between a calling from God and our own will when it comes to matters of family, we won't be seeing any restoration of polygamy IMO...

[NoSmiles]

But since you asked I think that if polygamy becomes legal the current leaders may or may not receive a

[Deborah]

When ever the church starts or stops a major policy change it is becuase of a "revelation."  It think the church would say that even small changes are do to divine intervention or promptings of the spirit.

Ok. I thought you were trying to imply that the church would get a revelation just because the law of the land changed and that had a negative connotation. But yes we do make changes based on revelation. However I'm with Dad, I don't think the Lord will re-instigate polygamy in our current society because of the great immorality in the world and the opportunity for Satan to distort the practice outside of the church.

[KevinG]

But since you asked I think that if polygamy becomes legal the current leaders may or may not receive a

[BlueDreams]

You got the wrong guy here.

Oops, so I did. Darn speed reading. Let's try this again.

If Polygamy becomes totally legalized, it will put the LDS Church in a very awkward position, a position that the Church does Not want to be put into.

Brackite, how so?

Back to your comments....

But since you asked I think that if polygamy becomes legal the current leaders may or may not receive a

[Hypnos]

I am curious about this question by Ref:

For those who support that it was a "God given command", have you ever wondered what God or the Lds Church hoped to accomplish that would not have been accomplished with monogamy?

Any takers?

This thread is about 19th century mormonism. The Op has clearly stated what this thread is and not about. Do not derail someone else's thread. Start your own if you want to discuss it.

Hypnos

[NoSmiles]

What influence did the occult converts have on polygamy in Mormonism??

?????

What the heck does that mean?

I too would like to learn more on this subject. I did read that Jacob Cochran from Maine did organize a polygamous group that was very similar to what BY organized in Salt Lake. From what I understand Mormon missionaries did visit that group in Maine.

Here are some of their similarities.

I found this at http://restorationbookstore.org/articles/n...p-vol1/chp1.htm.

Ridlon's 1895 Account Illustrates the Cochran Connection

The information taken from Historian Ridlon's book, in his chapter entitled "The Cochran Delusion," reveals some definite likenesses between Cochranism and the Mormon Church's polygamy, including:

1. Cochran used the term "spiritual wives" just as the Utah polygamists did;

2. Cochran claimed that permission to practice polygamy must come through revelation to the leader, just as in the Mormon Church's theology;

3. The leader's permission was required before spiritual wifery could be practiced;

4. "Assigning of wives" was practiced in both systems;

5. Exchanging of wives was sometimes practiced by both;

6. Oaths of secrecy were a requirement of Cochranis

[Calm]

1. Cochran used the term "spiritual wives" just as the Utah polygamists did

Evidence, please.

[NoSmiles]

1. Cochran used the term "spiritual wives" just as the Utah polygamists did

Evidence, please.

Evidence for Cochran or Utah using the term?

[Calm]

Utah and/or Nauvoo, please.

I should say using the term in a positive way. I've seen where it's been used in a negative way.

[NoSmiles]

Utah and/or Nauvoo, please.

I should say using the term in a positive way.  I've seen where it's been used in a negative way.

I read that term in Rough Stone Rolling. Not sure if spiritual wives has a negative connotation. There are several anti-Mormon sites that have quotes from early saints with that term. The quote was saying that the term was used. I think other terms were used as well.

Thread closed at OP request. --Mods