Clearing the Financial Record

[Golden Tapir]

vistamod:

Its not a special club that we protect through dress codes and tests of obedience, its a message that we are to be spreading and making available to the world. Perhaps as a member you have no problem with closed books, what about those outside the church that see that as a stumbling block. I always find it hard to believe that Christ is behind programs and policies that are a cause to

seperate Him from the people. But thats just me a half apostate. (end of quote)

One Word: Agree

[Teancum]

Yes, I saw your flippant, non-responsive, and dismissive answers. They fit well with your fallacious and baseless claim about what "reasonable people" supposedly understand.

They were not flippant nor is my claim of what most people expect under the auspices of financial reporting fallacious or baseless. In my answers I explained the common standard. I even said that reasonable people can disagree. And then I emphasized in another post why I felt the attestation function was so important to me.

That is not flippant. It is not a non response.

But I am curious and would like to see you answer your own questions in reverse.

Why do you think the records are sacred?

Why do you think the church should not have an independent audit and publish the audited financial statement?

What harm would come from it?

Can reasonable people disagree with you and also be active and devoted saints?

I am quite patient. This board is for entertainment only. I do not take it that seriously.

Teancum

[KevinG]

Can someone identify one case... any case... where someone decided not to join the Church because they coudn't see the books?

Stumbling block might be too strong a phrase.

[Teancum]

For my part, I am perfectly willing and capable of having a mutually respectful and intelligent dialogue, intent upon understanding, on the subject. In fact, that is what my two questions, and follow-up questions, were expressly designed to do. If you and others are willing to omit the snide, dismissive, judgmental, arrogant, distrusting, and other counter-productive types of remarks, and set aside your admitted anger, then I will be more than happy to do the same (though, I am not the least bit angry).

Granted. I just modified my most recent post to make it moe neutral. I am soory for the stuff you have found arrogant or mean.

I actually do consider you an internet friend Waed and we really are both on the same side here.

Teancum

[Teancum]

Can someone identify one case... any case... where someone decided not to join the Church because they coudn't see the books?

Stumbling block might be too strong a phrase.

Well I fI understand him right Vistamod does not pay tithing sue to the closed books. May be other things to. I do not know for sure.

Teancum

[wenglund]

Now that things have calmed down a bit, and the flurry of accusations and parting shots are out of the way, and some of us who are still remaining are back to the welcomed state of being

[Moksha]

How important is it to insist that no wrong has been done? I have no idea. The financial records have been kept from the members for 46 years. Dwight Eisenhower was still President of the US when the books were last open. The Cold War had yet to reach its peak. Young Johnny Carson had yet to appear on the Tonight Show.

Forward 46 years. Hundreds of thousands of embezzlements have occurred through out the world during that time. Those were in organizations that had independent audits and financial reporting. Fortunately, through audits and open reporting, the crooks were apprehended and the innocent people retained their money.

How could any of us know if everything is Jake with the Churches finances?

Thus I want to know how important is it to insist no wrong has been done?

What I do know is that it is high time for an independent audit from outside the Church, and a published financial statement.

Moderator: This is where the thread started. I think that everyone has had an opportunity to express themselves within 19 pages. Bickering, uh, I mean thread closed.