LittleNipper Posted April 24, 2018 Posted April 24, 2018 On 4/22/2018 at 10:47 PM, clarkgoble said: By the nature of a corporation wouldn't it already by paying 100% of its increase to the Church? I thought that a church is a non-prophet organization. With that in mind ---- should any church be making money or simply distributing it?
clarkgoble Posted April 25, 2018 Posted April 25, 2018 6 hours ago, LittleNipper said: I thought that a church is a non-prophet organization. With that in mind ---- should any church be making money or simply distributing it? The Church invests to be able to pay for future expenses - especially as the majority of growth takes place in countries where expenses are much higher than tithing revenue such as Africa. When we reach the point where Americans make up less than ¼ of Mormons these investments will be seen as very wise. 1
LittleNipper Posted April 25, 2018 Posted April 25, 2018 46 minutes ago, clarkgoble said: The Church invests to be able to pay for future expenses - especially as the majority of growth takes place in countries where expenses are much higher than tithing revenue such as Africa. When we reach the point where Americans make up less than ¼ of Mormons these investments will be seen as very wise. It seems to me that GOD intended HIS CHURCH to preach the Gospel message and contribute offerings. GOD always promised to supply for the needs.
Calm Posted April 25, 2018 Posted April 25, 2018 (edited) 33 minutes ago, LittleNipper said: It seems to me that GOD intended HIS CHURCH to preach the Gospel message and contribute offerings. GOD always promised to supply for the needs. Why cannot we through the Church be the tools by which he supplies those needs? Why not operate at Joseph of Egypt did, putting aside wealth and resources for lean years? Edited April 25, 2018 by Calm 1
LittleNipper Posted April 25, 2018 Posted April 25, 2018 10 hours ago, Calm said: Why cannot we through the Church be the tools by which he supplies those needs? Why not operate at Joseph of Egypt did, putting aside wealth and resources for lean years? Because Jesus acted so violently against turning the LORD's house into a business venture. And the Temple was to survive only through the tithe and offerings submitted by "congregation." The priests (Levites) were not even to have land like the other tribes.
clarkgoble Posted April 25, 2018 Posted April 25, 2018 15 hours ago, LittleNipper said: It seems to me that GOD intended HIS CHURCH to preach the Gospel message and contribute offerings. GOD always promised to supply for the needs. Yes and the way he is fulfilling his promise is by telling them to invest. It's not like the Church isn't also spending a lot on members.
Calm Posted April 25, 2018 Posted April 25, 2018 3 hours ago, LittleNipper said: Because Jesus acted so violently against turning the LORD's house into a business venture. And the Temple was to survive only through the tithe and offerings submitted by "congregation." The priests (Levites) were not even to have land like the other tribes. Who built the first temple and where do you think he got the money to do so?
LittleNipper Posted April 25, 2018 Posted April 25, 2018 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Calm said: Who built the first temple and where do you think he got the money to do so? Solomon built the First Temple. It was built with donations, tithing, presents to the Solomon from other kingdoms, treasure from Egypt that had been used in the tabernacle, and captured loot from the various enemy cities the Israelites destroyed. It wasn't a business venture to say the least. Edited April 25, 2018 by LittleNipper
SJR3t2 Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 From my understanding commandments are for humans not animals or things that are not part of the family of Adam. I pay my tithing off of surplus. JST Genesis 14: 37 And he lifted up his voice, and he blessed Abram, being the high priest, and the keeper of the storehouse of God; 38 Him whom God had appointed to receive tithes FOR THE POOR. 39 Wherefore, Abram paid unto him tithes of all that he had, of all the riches which he possessed, which God had given him MORE THAN THAT WHICH HE HAD NEED.
Marginal Gains Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 (edited) 22 minutes ago, SJR3t2 said: From my understanding commandments are for humans not animals or things that are not part of the family of Adam. I pay my tithing off of surplus. JST Genesis 14: 37 And he lifted up his voice, and he blessed Abram, being the high priest, and the keeper of the storehouse of God; 38 Him whom God had appointed to receive tithes FOR THE POOR. 39 Wherefore, Abram paid unto him tithes of all that he had, of all the riches which he possessed, which God had given him MORE THAN THAT WHICH HE HAD NEED. Define ‘surplus’ as that relates to your income. Edited April 27, 2018 by Marginal Gains
Marginal Gains Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 On 4/25/2018 at 7:01 PM, clarkgoble said: Yes and the way he is fulfilling his promise is by telling them to invest. It's not like the Church isn't also spending a lot on members. CFR that the Church is “spending a lot on members”.
SJR3t2 Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 17 minutes ago, Marginal Gains said: Define ‘surplus’ as that relates to your income. Lets use the 1828 dictionary to define surplus and interest as those are the words used in D&C 119. INTEREST 4. Premium paid for the use of money; the profit per cent derived from money lent, or property used by another person, or from debts remaining unpaid. Commercial states have a legal rate of interest Debts on book bear an interest after the expiration of the credit. Courts allow interest in many cases where it is not stipulated. A higher rate of interest than that which the law allows, is called usury. Simple interest is that which arises from the principal sum only. Compound interest is that which arises from the principal with the interest added; interest on interest 5. Any surplus advantage. http://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/Interest SURPLUS 1. Overplus; that which remains when use is satisfied; excess beyond what is prescribed or wanted. In the United States, the surplus of wheat and rye not required for consumption or exportation, is distilled. 2. In law, the residuum of an estate, after the debts and legacies are paid. http://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/surplus This fits exactly with JST Genesis 14 "MORE THAN THAT WHICH HE HAD NEED"
Marginal Gains Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 Just now, SJR3t2 said: Lets use the 1828 dictionary to define surplus and interest as those are the words used in D&C 119. INTEREST 4. Premium paid for the use of money; the profit per cent derived from money lent, or property used by another person, or from debts remaining unpaid. Commercial states have a legal rate of interest Debts on book bear an interest after the expiration of the credit. Courts allow interest in many cases where it is not stipulated. A higher rate of interest than that which the law allows, is called usury. Simple interest is that which arises from the principal sum only. Compound interest is that which arises from the principal with the interest added; interest on interest 5. Any surplus advantage. http://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/Interest SURPLUS 1. Overplus; that which remains when use is satisfied; excess beyond what is prescribed or wanted. In the United States, the surplus of wheat and rye not required for consumption or exportation, is distilled. 2. In law, the residuum of an estate, after the debts and legacies are paid. http://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/surplus This fits exactly with JST Genesis 14 "MORE THAN THAT WHICH HE HAD NEED" Just now, SJR3t2 said: Lets use the 1828 dictionary to define surplus and interest as those are the words used in D&C 119. INTEREST 4. Premium paid for the use of money; the profit per cent derived from money lent, or property used by another person, or from debts remaining unpaid. Commercial states have a legal rate of interest Debts on book bear an interest after the expiration of the credit. Courts allow interest in many cases where it is not stipulated. A higher rate of interest than that which the law allows, is called usury. Simple interest is that which arises from the principal sum only. Compound interest is that which arises from the principal with the interest added; interest on interest 5. Any surplus advantage. http://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/Interest SURPLUS 1. Overplus; that which remains when use is satisfied; excess beyond what is prescribed or wanted. In the United States, the surplus of wheat and rye not required for consumption or exportation, is distilled. 2. In law, the residuum of an estate, after the debts and legacies are paid. http://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/surplus This fits exactly with JST Genesis 14 "MORE THAN THAT WHICH HE HAD NEED" Just now, SJR3t2 said: Lets use the 1828 dictionary to define surplus and interest as those are the words used in D&C 119. INTEREST 4. Premium paid for the use of money; the profit per cent derived from money lent, or property used by another person, or from debts remaining unpaid. Commercial states have a legal rate of interest Debts on book bear an interest after the expiration of the credit. Courts allow interest in many cases where it is not stipulated. A higher rate of interest than that which the law allows, is called usury. Simple interest is that which arises from the principal sum only. Compound interest is that which arises from the principal with the interest added; interest on interest 5. Any surplus advantage. http://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/Interest SURPLUS 1. Overplus; that which remains when use is satisfied; excess beyond what is prescribed or wanted. In the United States, the surplus of wheat and rye not required for consumption or exportation, is distilled. 2. In law, the residuum of an estate, after the debts and legacies are paid. http://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/surplus This fits exactly with JST Genesis 14 "MORE THAN THAT WHICH HE HAD NEED" Okay thanks. You seem to be saying you pay tithing on your disposable income, after tax, bills and necessities etc.
SJR3t2 Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 12 minutes ago, Marginal Gains said: Okay thanks. You seem to be saying you pay tithing on your disposable income, after tax, bills and necessities etc. That is how it is defined in the scriptures. Scriptures are the law. D&C 42:59 Thou shalt take the things which thou hast received, which have been given unto thee in my scriptures for a law, to be my law to govern my church;
clarkgoble Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 3 hours ago, Marginal Gains said: CFR that the Church is “spending a lot on members”. Cost of chaptel, temples, and so forth. That's a lot of money. Throw in church welfare and mission subsidies and it adds up. Exact figures aren't available but Quinn's recent book gives subsidies from Church headquarters to the Church in various places. See this Trib article for figures.
Marginal Gains Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 6 hours ago, Marginal Gains said: Okay thanks. You seem to be saying you pay tithing on your disposable income, after tax, bills and necessities etc. 6 hours ago, SJR3t2 said: That is how it is defined in the scriptures. Scriptures are the law. D&C 42:59 Thou shalt take the things which thou hast received, which have been given unto thee in my scriptures for a law, to be my law to govern my church; I don’t disagree. How does your Bishop feel about your calculation of what constitutes an honest tothe?
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