Advice to apologists from a critic

[Robert F. Smith]

2 hours ago, cdowis said:

Perhaps in a perfect world this would true, but he does not live in the real world as it is today, where the atheist rules over the sciences and archaeologists do not even bother to read a "book delivered by an angel", where expert opinion is considered as fact.

The hatred of the world is greater than he could have imagined and is clear that he is very naive in thinking that, as Nibley pointed out,  whether the Book of Mormon would be taken seriously by scholars, and get a honest test of its authenticity.

You are altogether too negative. Instead you need to have faith in the resilience and adequacy of all Scripture, along with a realization that atheists do not rule the roost.  Secularism is indeed strong in our time, but that can be an advantage -- provided you are willing to allow relevant tests to be done, just as Roberts envisioned.  If Mormonism were not a naturalistic and humanistic religion, perhaps you'd have a point.  As it is, we have a sound basis on which to rest our claims.

[cdowis]

3 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

You are altogether too negative. Instead you need to have faith in the resilience and adequacy of all Scripture, along with a realization that atheists do not rule the roost.  Secularism is indeed strong in our time, but that can be an advantage -- provided you are willing to allow relevant tests to be done, just as Roberts envisioned.  If Mormonism were not a naturalistic and humanistic religion, perhaps you'd have a point.  As it is, we have a sound basis on which to rest our claims.

I prefer Christ's approach

Matt 16:13-17

Moroni 10:4-5

No rhetorical fireworks, no mention of archaeological evidence.

I do not desire to be held responsible for convincing /  converting the unbeliever.  That is not a burden I am willing to take on myself, but only to preach and they themselves are responsible to approach God for verification and conversion.

And you already knew that.

Edited November 29, 2017 by cdowis

[Jeanne]

On 11/26/2017 at 10:08 PM, RevTestament said:

I have been online for about 16 years now, and I'm sure you have ample experience too. What I have noticed is that people online generally dig in their heels even if they have clearly lost. Especially when they know I'm LDS. They will do just about anything not to look like they have lost a point to an LDS poster. So, a good while back I just usually didn't try to "win" or debate an issue. I just supported people in views I believe to be correct, and presented my views. I also learned from other people, so hopefully I taught other people some things they had not considered as well. Sharing like concepts or interpretations is a good way to start a conversation, and perhaps draw other people in. Simply trying to push one's own viewpoints makes one out to be an internet bully, and not a very good Christian. Every once in a while I get exasperated with someone, but hopefully on the whole most people view me as a contributor to this and other forums. I think that is the best way to represent our Savior and our Church online.

As far as digging in their heels, this works both ways Rev.  So much of this is human nature..perhaps not at it's best. 

[Robert F. Smith]

10 hours ago, cdowis said:

I prefer Christ's approach   Matt 16:13-17  Moroni 10:4-5  No rhetorical fireworks, no mention of archaeological evidence.

That is all well and good, but it leaves out of consideration Alma 32, as well as the powerful rhetoric of several biblical and Mormon prophets in the service of God (both in and out of the Holy Canon of Scripture).  Let God inspire as he chooses.

As to archeology, it is the enemies of biblical and LDS religion who first raised that issue and purveyed their lies.  Elder Roberts simply said, Bring it on, having full faith that the final outcome of the evidence would favor the truth (whatever that might be).

10 hours ago, cdowis said:

I do not desire to be held responsible for convincing /  converting the unbeliever.  That is not a burden I am willing to take on myself, but only to preach and they themselves are responsible to approach God for verification and conversion.  And you already knew that.

Nor should you.  The burden is indeed upon those who wish to resist the witness of the Holy Spirit.  However, that does not mean that everyone must roll over and play dead.  Some of us have spent a lifetime in scholarly pursuit of the truth, and we can only continue what we feel called to do. Some of us have responded to the public call by the Brethren to deal with these issues and to defend the Church online.  Each must follow his own path.