ERayR Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 Who knows. But my own experience after I prayed about the book of mormon was not out of want or narcissism. It was much more deeper than want or my own ego. It was an experience that I still cannot deny and keeps my foot still in the door. My ego would have rationalized it all away long ago. That combined with my inherent laziness.
Damien the Leper Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 Call it what you will but those who have received such manifestation are well aware of its validity and their own sanity. I don't believe I questioned anyone's sanity.
ERayR Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 I don't believe I questioned anyone's sanity. Sorry I am used to being told spiritual experiences are the result of a fragile grasp on reality. 1
Damien the Leper Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 Sorry I am used to being told spiritual experiences are the result of a fragile grasp on reality. I reject that and side with you. It's a very Dawkins and Hitchens smear tactic...nasty business that is. 1
Analytics Posted September 25, 2013 Posted September 25, 2013 “Joseph Smith Brings the Plates Home”New Video by Dan Vogel Joseph Smith claimed he translated the Book of Mormon from anciently engraved gold plates, which he took from a stone box in the side of a hill near his home in Manchester, New York. Claiming that he was forbidden by God to show them to anyone, Smith kept the plates carefully wrapped in a cloth or concealed in a wooden box. Believers accept this as God’s way of requiring faith, whereas skeptics suspect Smith constructed a set of plates that couldn’t pass visual inspection. This is the story of Joseph Smith’s bringing the plates home in September 1827. Thanks for putting this together Dan--it makes sense. It would be quite ironic for God to call a professional treasure digger to dig up a book written on golden plates, but then not be able to show it to anyone except under contrived circumstances.
cdowis Posted September 25, 2013 Posted September 25, 2013 Thanks for putting this together Dan--it makes sense. It would be quite ironic for God to call a professional treasure digger to dig up a book written on golden plates, but then not be able to show it to anyone except under contrived circumstances. This is called "If I were god, I would do things differently." Things like, disease, wars, earthquakes, hurricanes, defective genes, etc. And you have a problem with JS's profession -- that it disqualifies him from being a prophet? I would think you would have bigger issues to complain about.
cdowis Posted September 25, 2013 Posted September 25, 2013 Now, here is what I would do if I were god. I would find a young man, and prepare him for translating the gold plates. Perhaps a glass looker would be an interesting choice. He would not be afraid to get his hands dirty -- treasure seeker is an interesting profession, as long as it is honest work and not cheating anyone. A hard worker. He would be a "seeker of truth", not blindly following a particular preacher, unswayed by their preaching. Unafraid to speak his mind and to stand up for himself, regardless of what other think about him. Stand up to those who criticize and mock him for doing what he believed was right. A leader of men, charismatic. That is what I would do if I were God looking for a prophet to bring forth the Book of Mormon. I guess you would do things differently.
Analytics Posted September 26, 2013 Posted September 26, 2013 This is called "If I were god, I would do things differently." Things like, disease, wars, earthquakes, hurricanes, defective genes, etc. And you have a problem with JS's profession -- that it disqualifies him from being a prophet? I would think you would have bigger issues to complain about. I'm not complaining about anything. In my opinion, Vogel's analysis adds a lot of insight into understanding what really happened. That's a positive compliment about a positive thing. On the other hand, if the whole story about gold plates is what actually happened, the fact that God would call a money-digger to dig up golden plates is in fact ironic. I find the notion quite entertaining and if I were God, I'd likely do it exactly the same way.
cdowis Posted September 26, 2013 Posted September 26, 2013 We have to remember that the Lord knew Joseph Smith from before he was born. He knoew what he could do. We must judge him by his accomplishments. The rest of the stuff, glass looker and treasure seeker, is only background noise and does not drown out the symphony. Reminds me of Newton, one of the world's greatest scientist. He spent alot of time in alchemy, trying to change base metals into gold. We judge him on his scientific achievements, what he accomplished.
ERayR Posted September 26, 2013 Posted September 26, 2013 In my opinion, Vogel's analysis adds a lot of insight into understanding what really happened. Vogel has no understanding of what really happened. In fact Vogel rejects what really happened and spends his time trying to find justification for that rejection.
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted September 26, 2013 Posted September 26, 2013 Thanks for putting this together Dan--it makes sense. It would be quite ironic for God to call a professional treasure digger to dig up a book written on golden plates, but then not be able to show it to anyone except under contrived circumstances. O professional treasure differ? Now that is funny. Did he dig for treasure and money? Yeah I don't think anyone disupites that. I think a lot of people did that back in the day. BUt I would hardly call it a profession. He seemed to have very poor luck with it.
cdowis Posted September 28, 2013 Posted September 28, 2013 I think he said in a newspaper interview that treasure digging was not very profitable.
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