Lightbearer Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 The following quote says:"Behold, these things I have spoken unto you concerning the Jews; and again, after the tribulation of those days which shall come upon Jerusalem, if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there, believe him not; For in those days there shall also arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch, that, if possible, they shall deceive the very elect, who are the elect according to the covenant." (Pearl of Great Price | JS-Matthew 1:21-22) Who or what are these false Christs? (if not false systems of worship or apostate versions of christianity?) What could they be? And why is it possible that they could decieve the very elect "who are the elect according to the covenant?" This is talking of the last days, which means our day. As LDS we believe in a total general apostasy of traditional christianity, so is this speaking of them or some other unknown organization? What think ye?
pogi Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 I have wondered the same thing myself. I don't know much about any of these people listed below and if they have shown any "great signs and wonders" or if they have deceived any elect, but I do know about one of the men, Sun Myung Moon. I baptized a family on my mission who's mother refused to be baptized because she believed that he was the Christ. We had some interesting discussions. As far as deceiving the very elect goes, it is prefaced with "if possible." What does that mean?List of people claimed to be JesusFrom Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaThis is a partial list of notable people who have been claimed, either by themselves or by their followers, to in some way be the reincarnation or incarnation of Jesus Christ, or the Second Coming of Christ.19th centuryJohn Nichols Thom (1799–1838), a Cornish tax rebel who claimed to be the "saviour of the world" and the reincarnation of Jesus Christ and his body temple of the Holy Ghost[citation needed] in 1834. He was killed by British soldiers at the Battle of Bossenden Wood, on May 31, 1838 in Kent, England.[1]Arnold Potter (1804–1872), Schismatic Latter Day Saint leader; he claimed the spirit of Jesus Christ entered into his body and he became "Potter Christ" Son of the living God. He died in an attempt to "ascend into heaven" by jumping off a cliff. His body was later retrieved and buried by his followers.[2]Bahá'u'lláh (1817–1892), born Shiite, adopted Bábism later in 1844,[3] he claimed to be the prophesied fulfillment and Promised One of all the major religions. He founded the Bahá'í Faith in 1866.[4] Followers of the Bahá'í Faith believe that the fulfillment of the prophecies of the second coming of Jesus, as well as the prophecies of the 5th Buddha Maitreya and many other religious prophecies, were begun by the Báb in 1844 and then by Bahá'u'lláh. They commonly compare the fulfillment of Christian prophecies to Jesus' fulfillment of Jewish prophecies, where in both cases people were expecting the literal fulfillment of apocalyptic statements.[5]William W. Davies (1833–1906), leader of a Latter Day Saint schismatic group called the Kingdom of Heaven located in Walla Walla, Washington from 1867 to 1881. He taught his followers that he was the archangel Michael, who had previously lived as the biblical Adam, Abraham, and David. When his son Arthur was born on February 11, 1868, Davies declared that the infant was the reincarnated Jesus Christ.[6][7] When Davies's second son, David, was born in 1869, he was declared to be God the Father.[6]Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian, India (1835–1908), claimed to be the awaited Mahdi as well as (Second Coming) and likeness of Jesus the promised Messiah at the end of time, being the only person in Islamic history who claimed to be both.[citation needed] He claimed to be Jesus in the metaphorical sense; in character. He founded the Ahmadiyya Movement in 1889, envisioning it to be the rejuvenation of Islam, and claimed to be commissioned by God for the reformation of mankind.[citation needed]20th centuryHaile Selassie I (1892–1975) did not claim to be Jesus and disapproved of claims that he was Jesus. But the Rastafari movement, which emerged in Jamaica during the 1930s, believes he is the Second Coming. He embodied this when he became Emperor of Ethiopia in 1930, perceived as confirmation of the return of the Messiah in the prophetic Book of Revelation 5:5 in the New Testament but is also expected to return a second time to initiate the apocalyptic day of judgment. He is also called Jah Ras Tafari, and is often considered to be alive by Rastafari movement members.[8]George Ernest Roux (1903–1981), called the "Christ of Montfavet" or "Georges-Christ",[9] founder of the Universal Christian Church (now named the Universal Alliance) in France, claimed to be Jesus, then God. He presented himself as a persecuted prophet to carry out the law of love unfulfilled by God's representatives, including Jesus.[10]Ernest Norman (1904–1971), an American electrical engineer who co-founded the Unarius Academy of Science in 1954, was allegedly Jesus in a past life and his earthly incarnation was as an archangel named Raphiel.[11] He claimed to be the reincarnation of other notable figures including Confucius, Mona Lisa, Benjamin Franklin, Socrates, Queen Elizabeth I, and Tsar Peter I the Great.[12]William M Branham (April 8, 1908 – December 24, 1965) though never directly claiming to be Jesus himself, Branham promoted himself as the final prophet "Elijah" [13] and claimed that Elijah of this day was the Lord Jesus Christ.[14]Krishna Venta (1911—1958), born Francis Herman Pencovic in San Francisco, founded the WKFL (Wisdom, Knowledge, Faith and Love) Fountain of the World cult in Simi Valley, California in the late 1940s. In 1948 he stated that he was Christ, the new messiah and claimed to have led a convoy of rocket ships to Earth from the extinct planet Neophrates. He died on December 10, 1958 after being suicide bombed by two disgruntled former followers who accused Venta of mishandling cult funds and having been intimate with their wives.Ahn Sahng-Hong (1918–1985), a South Korean who founded the World Mission Society Church of God in 1964, who consider him the Second Coming of Jesus. The church believes that his wife Zahng Gil-Jah is "God the Mother," who they believe is referred to in the Bible as the New Jerusalem Mother (Galatians 4:26, and that Ahn Sahng-Hong is God the Father[15]Sun Myung Moon (1920–2012), believed by members of the Unification Church to be the Messiah and the Second Coming of Christ, fulfilling Jesus' unfinished mission. Church members ("Unificationists") consider Sun Myung Moon and his wife, Hak Ja Han, to be the True Parents of humankind as the restored Adam and Eve.[16][17]Jim Jones (1931–1978), founder of Peoples Temple, which started off as an offshoot of a mainstream protestant sect before becoming a personality cult as time went on. He claimed to be the reincarnation of Jesus, Akhenaten, Buddha, Vladimir Lenin, and Father Divine in the 1970s.[18] Organized a mass murder suicide at Jonestown, Guyana on November 18, 1978.[19]Marshall Applewhite (1931–1997), an American who posted a famous Usenet message declaring, "I, Jesus—Son of God—acknowledge on this date of September 25/26, 1995: ..."[20] Applewhite and his Heaven's Gate cult committed mass suicide on March 26, 1997 to rendezvous with what they thought was a spaceship hiding behind the comet Hale-Bopp.[21]Yahweh ben Yahweh (1935–2007), born as Hulon Mitchell, Jr., a black nationalist and separatist who created the Nation of Yahweh in 1979 in Liberty City, Florida. His self-proclaimed name means "God, Son of God." He could have only been deeming himself to be "son of God", not God, but many of his followers clearly deem him to be God Incarnate.[22][23] In 1992, he was convicted of conspiracy to commit murder and sentenced to 18 years in prison.[24]Laszlo Toth (1940–), Hungarian-born Australian who claimed he was Jesus Christ as he vandalized Michelangelo's Pietà with a geologist's hammer in 1972.[25][26]Wayne Bent (1941–), also known as Michael Travesser of the Lord Our Righteousness Church. He claims; "I am the embodiment of God. I am divinity and humanity combined."[27] He was convicted on December 15, 2008 of one count of criminal sexual contact of a minor and two counts of contributing to the delinquency of a minor in 2008.[28]Ariffin Mohammed (1943–), also known as "Ayah Pin", the founder of the banned Sky Kingdom in Malaysia in 1975. He claims to have direct contact with the heavens and is believed by his followers to be the incarnation of Jesus, as well as Shiva, and Buddha, and Muhammad.[29]Mitsuo Matayoshi (1944–), a conservative Japanese politician, who in 1997 established the World Economic Community Party based on his conviction that he is God and Christ, renaming himself Iesu Matayoshi. According to his program he will do the Last Judgment as Christ but within the current political system.[30][31]José Luis de Jesús Miranda (1946–), Puerto Rican founder, leader and organizer of Growing in Grace based in Miami, Florida, who claims that the resurrected Christ "integrated himself within me" in 2007.[32]Inri Cristo (1948–), a Brazilian astrologer who claims to be the second Jesus reincarnated in 1969,[33] Brasília is considered by Inri Cristo and his disciples as the “New Jerusalem” of the Apocalypse.Thomas Harrison Provenzano[34] (1949–2000), an American convicted murderer who was possibly mentally ill. He compared his execution with Jesus Christ's crucifixion.[35]Shoko Asahara (1955–), founded the controversial Japanese religious group Aum Shinrikyo in 1984. He declared himself "Christ", Japan's only fully enlightened master and the "Lamb of God". His purported mission was to take upon himself the sins of the world. He outlined a doomsday prophecy, which included a Third World War, and described a final conflict culminating in a nuclear "Armageddon", borrowing the term from the Book of Revelation 16:16.[36] Humanity would end, except for the elite few who joined Aum.[36] The group gained international notoriety in March 20, 1995, when it carried out the Sarin gas attack on the Tokyo subway. He has been sentenced to death, and is awaiting execution.David Koresh (1959–1993), born Vernon Wayne Howell, was the leader of a Branch Davidian religious sect in Waco, Texas, though never directly claiming to be Jesus himself, proclaimed that he was the final prophet and "the Son of God, the Lamb" in 1983. In 1993, a raid by the U.S. BATF, and the subsequent siege by the FBI ended with Branch Davidian ranch burning to the ground. Koresh, 54 adults and 21 children were found dead after the fire extinguished itself.[37]Hogen Fukunaga (1945–) founded Ho No Hana Sanpogyo, often called the "foot reading cult," in Japan in 1987 after an alleged spiritual event where he claimed to have realized he was the reincarnation of Jesus Christ and Gautama Buddha.[38]Marina Tsvigun (1960–), or Maria Devi Christos, is the leader of the Great White Brotherhood.[39] In 1990 she met Yuri Krivonogov, the "Great White Brotherhood" founder, who recognized Marina as a new messiah and later married her, assuming in the sect the role of "John the Baptist", subordinate to Tsvigun.Sergey Torop (1961–), a Russian who claims to be "reborn" as Vissarion, Jesus Christ returned, which makes him not "God" but the "word of God." He founded the Church of the Last Testament and the spiritual community Ecopolis Tiberkul in Southern Siberia in 1990.[40][41]Maurice Clemmons (1972 – 2009) an American felon responsible for the 2009 murder of four police officers in Washington state, repeatedly referred to himself as Jesus, and said his wife was Eve.[42][43]21st centuryDavid Shayler (1965–) was a former MI5 agent and whistleblower who, in the summer of 2007, proclaimed himself to be the Messiah. He has released a series of videos on YouTube claiming to be Jesus, although has not built up any noticeable following since his claims.[44][45][46]Oscar Ramiro Ortega-Hernandez (1990-). In November 2011, he fired nine shots with an AK-47-type rifle at the White House in Washington D.C., believing himself to be Jesus Christ sent to kill U.S. President Barack Obama whom he believed to be the Anti-Christ.[47][48]Alan John Miller (1962–), more commonly known as A.J. Miller, a former Jehovah's Witness elder member and now leader of the Australia-based Divine Truth movement.[49] Miller claims to be Jesus Christ after reincarnating in the 20th century with others to spread messages that he calls the "Divine Truth". He delivers these messages in seminars and various forms of media, along with his current partner Mary Suzanne Luck, who identifies herself as the returned Mary Magdalene.[50]Lia Eden (1947 -), born as Lia Aminuddin in Makassar, Indonesia. In 1998, she claimed that she met the angel Gabriel several times, convincing her that she was Imam Mahdi or Messiah who brought the prophecy of the world security and justice before the doomsday. In another occasion, she also claimed that she was the reincarnation of Mother Mary and her son, Ahmad Mukti as the reincarnation of Jesus. She wrote a 232 page book "Perkenankan Aku Menjelaskan Sebuah Takdir" (meaning "Let Me Explain a Destiny"). She gathered around 100 pupils and spread her teaching in a religious group called Salamullah Pilgrim. The Indonesian Council of Ulema banned this new sect for false Koran teaching. In 2006, Eden was sentenced to two years in prison for religious blasphemy. In 2009, she was once again sentenced for another two years in prison for the same case.[51] 2
Batgirlsmom Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 The following quote says:Who or what are these false Christs? (if not false systems of worship or apostate versions of christianity?) What could they be? And why is it possible that they could decieve the very elect "who are the elect according to the covenant?" This is talking of the last days, which means our day. As LDS we believe in a total general apostasy of traditional christianity, so is this speaking of them or some other unknown organization? What think ye?Why would these not originate from within the church? The "elect according to the covenant" points to members in the church who have performed their temple covenants. Who could deceive these people? Well, if they are truly elect and following their covenants then they are following the leaders of the church. Which means if they are deceived it would be by one or more leaders of the church whom they faithfully follow. It's not like it hasn't happened before (ahem, upheaval-at-the-time-of-Joseph-Smith's-death). And, if it's happened before it can happen again.
Batgirlsmom Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 And, then we have Mormon 8:35-39 describing the state of the church today from Mormon speaking to us "as if ye were present". So, with a church in that state would it be any wonder the very elect could be deceived?
DavidB Posted December 31, 2012 Posted December 31, 2012 Banks and mortgage lenders which are deemed "Too big to allow to fail"
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