Ron Beron Posted July 1, 2012 Author Posted July 1, 2012 I am fond of Alan Segal's "Paul the Conert:The Apostolate and Apostasy of Saul the Pharisee." Segal looked at Paul from the perspective of his conversion experience, particularly how it shaped his relationship to his past and to his former community. Paul's upbringing as a Pharisee heavily informed his life as a Christian, but it was through the lens of his conversion, his mystical enocunter with Christ. Ron Beron is one of the old stalwarts here, one of my favourites, but his perspective on Paul is far radicaler than mine. Paul was at once Christian, Jew, and Hellene. The three were not mutually exclusive, Daniel Boyarin has shown how border lines became sharply defined only during a much later date and Lee Levine noted that everyone in the ancient Mediterranean and Middle East was Hellenised. The difference is to what extent. Even among groups and individuals, certain aspects, such as clothing and architecture, might be thoroughly Hellenised, whereas in many religious and philosophical attitudes, Hellenism might be far more selective. In my opinion, one of the most frustrating figures in the study of Judaism was Erwin Goodenough. He did a lot to create the study of Jewish art, how it can teach us about ancient beliefs, but he also (unintentionally) misrepresented the facts. Goodenough percieved of a Hellenistic Judaism in opposition to Rabbinic Judaism. The former was Spiritualised, allegorical and mystical, whereas Rabbinic Judaism was legalistic, rational and dry. Subsequent evaluation has shown how untenable the divide is.Good books, but if I could add Hyam Maccoby's "The Mythmaker". Great read from a Jewish perspective.
Ron Beron Posted July 1, 2012 Author Posted July 1, 2012 Where on earth did this come from? I never proposed any idea that he would return in their lifetimes. I almost feel like asking with Jesus "You are an Elder in Israel yet you do not know these things?"The formal hierarchy was given for order in the Church, for the work of the ministry "till we all come in a unity of the faith".I, Paul, the apostles and countless others as well proposed this. The belief by all was that Jesus would return shortly, hence the term Maranatha. People were told to sell all they had, not to engage in marriage, and to prepare for His coming. That is what Paul believed and practiced in his missionary endeavors.
Damien the Leper Posted July 1, 2012 Posted July 1, 2012 We owe the existence of our canon to MarcionIs there any substantial evidence of Marcion's influence on the canon outside of his rejection of Jewish and Jewish Christian literature?
Damien the Leper Posted July 1, 2012 Posted July 1, 2012 Sure.Marcion set the tone and influenced a great many early Christians. He established the first canon of scripture and instigated the collection of Paul's writings much sooner than other writings were collected. Meanwhile their writings were lost.As a result, Paul is more overly represented in both the Bible and in the extrabiblical literature than any of the other Apostles and various stories surrounding him were created that make him superhuman. Even if you do not accept Marcion, you are affected by him because of his pervasive and early influence. Now, from a space of 1900 years, you try to untangle Paul from the legend intentionally created by the heretic and apostate Marcion and you lose your way. Unless guided by divine inspiration.All these guys who like to talk about how Paul was out on his own doing renegade stuff are substantially influenced by Marcion who insisted that only Paul knew the truth and the rest were Pikers. Even Paul, who loved his independence, never went that far, and acknowledged and accepted the authority of the others.Umm...can we find a place to insert the Muratorian Canon here somewhere?Somebody? Anybody?
CASteinman Posted July 1, 2012 Posted July 1, 2012 (edited) I, Paul, the apostles and countless others as well proposed this. The belief by all was that Jesus would return shortly, hence the term Maranatha. People were told to sell all they had, not to engage in marriage, and to prepare for His coming. That is what Paul believed and practiced in his missionary endeavors.First of all, I am aware of this story. But you spoke up about it as though my position depended upon it and I presented it. It does not and I did not. That is why I asked "Where did this come from?" Because it has nothing to do with my position.Second, although perhaps some people were running around with a Harold Camping approach to things, I reject and consider it imaginary that this was taught by the Apostles. There is no reasonable evidence that they taught this and there is evidence to the contrary. For example: "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, that ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as (allegedly) from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first. Here Paul is actually sayinjg that such rumors are NOT from them and that the story is not true. So, whether the apostles and people thought that time frame might be 100 years or 300 or 1000 or 10,000, they were not teaching the people to sell all they had and to avoid marriage because Jesus was coming real soon. Indeed Paul was countering the rumors that this was something he taught.Incidentally, the word maranantha in the New Testament is part of a curse, not some joyful expectation. Edited July 1, 2012 by CASteinman
CASteinman Posted July 1, 2012 Posted July 1, 2012 (edited) Is there any substantial evidence of Marcion's influence on the canon outside of his rejection of Jewish and Jewish Christian literature?Yes. He compiled the first canon and built churches to his views with a strong ecclesiastical structure, in just about every major city of the empire.Many Christians today do not like the idea that Marcion the Heretic drew the first lines and affected their canon (and beliefs) so much but ... Oh well. Edited July 1, 2012 by CASteinman
CASteinman Posted July 1, 2012 Posted July 1, 2012 (edited) Umm...can we find a place to insert the Muratorian Canon here somewhere?Somebody? Anybody?The Muratorian fragment is after Marcion. Marcion even predates the Diatessaron.Marcion's influence was so great that the traditional headings and prologues to books of the Bible (well, the ones he accepted) as found in the Catholic Church were (despite his apostasy) written by him. Edited July 1, 2012 by CASteinman
Ron Beron Posted July 1, 2012 Author Posted July 1, 2012 Incidentally, the word maranantha in the New Testament is part of a curse, not some joyful expectation.So,If coupled with Anathema.
CASteinman Posted July 1, 2012 Posted July 1, 2012 If coupled with Anathema.Does it appear in the Bible without that anathema?
Kerry A. Shirts Posted July 1, 2012 Posted July 1, 2012 If we include the beliefs of Joseph Smith I would have to say, "no contest", because obviously his prophetic nature trumps my academic, but we are also encouraged to seek things out of the best materials we have at hand. As to the brethren who called and set him there is wide and divergent beliefs as to what that meant. Given the words of James I would have to believe they wanted to get rid of him.No it doesn't. No one's prophetic nature trumps academia without evidence. The only sure way in this life we can actually come to KNOW is through reasoning, analysis and evidence, otherwise we fall back to faith which is not knowedge. ALL things are to be PROVEN........ not merely accepted because it's labeled with assumptions operating the show. I want reasoned truth, not something simply that wins automatically because of a tradition of reverence or impression
Kerry A. Shirts Posted July 1, 2012 Posted July 1, 2012 The Muratorian fragment is after Marcion. Marcion even predates the Diatessaron.Marcion's influence was so great that the traditional headings and prologues to books of the Bible (well, the ones he accepted) as found in the Catholic Church were (despite his apostasy) written by him.It's obvious, since we accept the Bible even its chronology that Marcion is but only one influence over us all........ whoever it was that wrote and arranged the Bible continues to influence us......
CASteinman Posted July 1, 2012 Posted July 1, 2012 (edited) It's obvious, since we accept the Bible even its chronology that Marcion is but only one influence over us all........ whoever it was that wrote and arranged the Bible continues to influence us......Yes. And while others later added to (Corrected) what Marcion compiled, he was the first. He drew the line in the sand. And for centuries HIS summaries of the books were included in Bibles. (I point this out, not because his summaries are particularly relevant but the fact that they survived into modern times, inside the Bibles, -- for the Books he approved -- is evidence of just how pervasive his influence was in the compilation of the canon)His influence in particular led to the enshrinement and preservation of Paul's epistles above others. Edited July 1, 2012 by CASteinman
Kerry A. Shirts Posted July 1, 2012 Posted July 1, 2012 Yes. And while others later added to (Corrected) what Marcion compiled, he was the first. He drew the line in the sand. And for centuries HIS summaries of the books were included in Bibles. (I point this out, not because his summaries are particularly relevant but the fact that they survived into modern times, inside the Bibles, -- for the Books he approved -- is evidence of just how pervasive his influence was in the compilation of the canon)His influence in particular led to the enshrinement and preservation of Paul's epistles above others.Velly intellestink way of putting things.......... that sounds like a post I should have written.....
Ron Beron Posted July 1, 2012 Author Posted July 1, 2012 'CASteinman' writesFirst of all, I am aware of this story. But you spoke up about it as though my position depended upon it and I presented it. It does not and I did not. That is why I asked "Where did this come from?" Because it has nothing to do with my position.Honestly, I forgot how it came up. So, let's let it go.Second, although perhaps some people were running around with a Harold Camping approach to things, I reject and consider it imaginary that this was taught by the Apostles. There is no reasonable evidence that they taught this and there is evidence to the contrary. For example: "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, that ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as (allegedly) from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first. Here Paul is actually sayinjg that such rumors are NOT from them and that the story is not true. So, whether the apostles and people thought that time frame might be 100 years or 300 or 100 or 10,000, they were not teaching the people to sell all they had and to avoid marriage because Jesus was coming real soon. Indeed Paul was countering the rumors that this was something he taught.The reference above refers to the Parousia of Jesus. It is mentioned 16 times2Pe.3:12Matthew 24:3, 27, 37, 39;1 Corinthians 15:23;1 Thessalonians 2:19; 3:13; 4:15; 5:23;2 Thessalonians 2:1, 8, 9;James 5:7, 8;2 Peter 1:16; 3:4, 12;1 John 2:28.Paul's reference above refers specifically to the apostasy which is to come not in counterpose to it.
Ron Beron Posted July 1, 2012 Author Posted July 1, 2012 Does it appear in the Bible without that anathema?Yes, Rev. 22:20 and the Didache22:20 The one who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon!” Amen! Come, Lord Jesus! 22:21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all."
CASteinman Posted July 1, 2012 Posted July 1, 2012 Yes, Rev. 22:20 and the Didache22:20 The one who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon!” Amen! Come, Lord Jesus! 22:21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all."I think that is not maranantha. I think that is erchomai and erchon.
CASteinman Posted July 1, 2012 Posted July 1, 2012 Paul's reference above refers specifically to the apostasy which is to come not in counterpose to it.I am not sure what you are getting at. I thought the point was about how the apostles did or did not teach people to sell their stuff, stop entering marriage and so on because Jesus was coming soon. Not that there are prophecies of Jesus' return. I figure we agree on that.
Ron Beron Posted July 2, 2012 Author Posted July 2, 2012 I think that is not maranantha. I think that is erchomai and erchon.Yes, in Greek, but in Aramaic it is marana tha which has been transliterated rather than translated. The NAB comments on it..."As understood here ("O Lord, come!"), it is for the early return of Christ. If the Aramaic words are divided differently (Maran atha, "Our Lord has come"), it becomes a declaration. The former interpretation is supported by what appears to be a Greek equivalent of this acclamation in Book of Revelation 22:20 "Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!"" 1
Ron Beron Posted July 2, 2012 Author Posted July 2, 2012 (edited) <p><br />I am not sure what you are getting at. I thought the point was about how the apostles did or did not teach people to sell their stuff, stop entering marriage and so on because Jesus was coming soon. Not that there are prophecies of Jesus' return. I figure we agree on that.<br /><br />Sorry if there were any confusion. They were asked to sell their possessions because Jesus would return soon. There is ample evidence of the immenent return of Jesus as the Messiah in both the Pauline Epistles and Revelation (Rev. 19:11;1:14)During his ministry Jesus talked about a second coming on a number of occasions. For example, in John 14:3, he says "I will come back", and in Matthew 16:27 he says "For the Son of Man is going to return in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done."Matthew 16:28, "I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."Luke 21:32, "I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened." He makes similar statements in Luke 9:27 and Mark 9:1.1Corinthians 7:29-31 "And I say this, brothers and sisters:The time is short. So then those who have wives should be as those who have none, 7:30 those with tears like those not weeping, those who rejoice like those not rejoicing, those who buy like those without possessions, 7:31 those who use the world as though they were not using it to the full. For the present shape of this world is passing away." Edited July 2, 2012 by Ron Beron
CASteinman Posted July 2, 2012 Posted July 2, 2012 Yes, in Greek, but in Aramaic it is marana tha which has been transliterated rather than translated. The NAB comments on it...Maybe. But Revelation was written in Greek not Aramaic. Anyway, this does not say "Come Quickly because we are telling everyone to stop planning for the future".
CASteinman Posted July 2, 2012 Posted July 2, 2012 (edited) <p><br />Sorry if there were any confusion. They were asked to sell their possessions because Jesus would return soon. Once again, that they believed Jesus would come again is not an area where we disagree. What we are disagreeing on is that they were told not to marry, not to engage in saving and so on. Which is not true. As Paul expressly says.Your quote of Corinthians seems to be your only support and yet modern revelation has shown us that your interpretation of it is incorrect and that it should be:But I speak unto you who are called unto the ministry. For this I say, brethren, the time that remaineth is but short, that ye shall be sent forth unto the ministry. Even they who have wives, shall be as though they had none; for ye are called and chosen to do the Lord’s work. And it shall be with them who weep, as though they wept not; and them who rejoice, as though they rejoiced not, and them who buy, as though they possessed not; and them who use this world, as not using it; for the fashion of this world passeth away. But I would, brethren, that ye magnify your calling. I would have you without carefulness. For he who is unmarried, careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord; therefore he prevaileth. But he who is married, careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please his wife; therefore there is a difference, for he is hindered.This is not a reference to not marrying and not planning for the future. It is about dedication to the Gospel and to the Lord above other things -- specifically for those who are in the ministry.Your other references: Luke 21 and Matt 16 -- you also do not take into account Modern Revelation. (Why do you ignore it?)For example, the generation he was talking about was a future generation. But, even if He had been talking about the current generation (which meant that he was clueless about the future -- something I reject) He is not saying "Don't plan for the future". Edited July 2, 2012 by CASteinman
Ron Beron Posted July 2, 2012 Author Posted July 2, 2012 Maybe. But Revelation was written in Greek not Aramaic. Anyway, this does not say "Come Quickly because we are telling everyone to stop planning for the future".LOL...Yes, but the Revelator was Jewish and some things said in Aramaic are not easily translated into Greek and vice versa.
Ron Beron Posted July 2, 2012 Author Posted July 2, 2012 Once again, that they believed Jesus would come again is not an area where we disagree. What we are disagreeing on is that they were told not to marry, not to engage in saving and so on. Which is not true. As Paul expressly says.Your quote of Corinthians seems to be your only support and yet modern revelation has shown us that your interpretation of it is incorrect and that it should be:This is not a reference to not marrying and not planning for the future. It is about dedication to the Gospel and to the Lord above other things -- specifically for those who are in the ministry.Your other references: Luke 21 and Matt 16 -- you also do not take into account Modern Revelation. (Why do you ignore it?)For example, the generation he was talking about was a future generation. But, even if He had been talking about the current generation (which meant that he was clueless about the future -- something I reject) He is not saying "Don't plan for the future".More later, but as to modern revelation and more ignorance of it is simple. Ancient peoples were writing for their situation and not for the understanding of 21st century individuals. Even some of the beliefs of JS have evolved by current revelation.
Ron Beron Posted July 2, 2012 Author Posted July 2, 2012 (edited) Once again, that they believed Jesus would come again is not an area where we disagree. What we are disagreeing on is that they were told not to marry, not to engage in saving and so on. Which is not true. As Paul expressly says.Your quote of Corinthians seems to be your only support and yet modern revelation has shown us that your interpretation of it is incorrect and that it should be:This is not a reference to not marrying and not planning for the future. It is about dedication to the Gospel and to the Lord above other things -- specifically for those who are in the ministry.Your other references: Luke 21 and Matt 16 -- you also do not take into account Modern Revelation. (Why do you ignore it?)For example, the generation he was talking about was a future generation. But, even if He had been talking about the current generation (which meant that he was clueless about the future -- something I reject) He is not saying "Don't plan for the future".Without reference to modern revelation:SECOND COMING OF CHRISTI. Representative Biblical references to second coming. Although there is no direct reference to "second coming" (cf. Heb. 9:28), there is abundant reference to Christ's coming again. Justin Martyr in second century is first known usage of "second coming." A. Greek word parousia - "coming, presence, arrival" I Cor. 15:23 - "those who are Christ's at His coming" I Thess. 4:15; 5:23 - "the coming of the Lord" cf. 2:19; 3:13 II Thess. 2:1 - "the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ" cf. 2:8 James 4:7,8 - "the coming of the Lord" II Pet. 3:12 - "looking for the coming of the Day of God" cf. 1:16; 3:4 I Jn. 2:28 - "at His coming" B. Greek word apokalypsis - "revealing, unveiling, disclosure" I Cor. 1:7 - "awaiting eagerly the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ" II Thess. 1:7 - "when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven" I Pet. 1:7 - "the revelation of Jesus Christ" cf. 1:13; 4:13; 5:1 C. Greek word epiphaneia - "appearing, manifestation" I Tim. 6:14 - "the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ" II Tim. 4:1 - "His appearing and His kingdom" cf. 4:8 Titus 2:13 - "the appearing of our God and Savior, Christ Jesus" D. Greek word phaneroo - "make visible, appear" I Pet. 5:4 - "when the Chief Shepherd appears" I Jn. 2:28 - "when He appears...at His coming" I Jn. 3:2 - "when He appears we shall be like Him" E. Greek word erchomai - "to come" I Cor. 11:26 - "you proclaim the Lord's death until He comes" Heb. 10:37 - "He who is coming will come and will not delay" Rev. 1:7 - "He is coming with the clouds" Rev. 22:7,12,20 - "I am coming quickly" F. Greek word heko - "to come" II Pet. 3:10 - "the day of the Lord will come like a thief" Rev. 2:25 - "hold fast until I come" cf. 3:3 G. Greek word hemera - "day" I Cor. 1:8 - "the day of our Lord Jesus Christ" cf. I Cor. 5:5; Phil. 1:6,10;2:16 I Thess 5:2 - "the day of the Lord" cf. II Thess. 2:2; II Pet. 3:10 II Thess. 1:10 - "on that day" cf. II Tim. 1:18 II Pet. 3:12 - "the day of God" H. Greek word elpis - "hope" Titus 2:13 - "looking for the blessed hope"II. Expectation of second coming A. Overwhelming Biblical evidence of expected second coming 1. Referred to in every New Testament book except Galatians and three "postcard epistles" of Philemon, II John and III John 2. Jesus and every apostolic author refers to second coming B. Denial of the expected second coming 1. Predicted - II Pet 3:3,4 - "mockers will say 'Where is the promise of His coming?'" 2. Theological liberalism denies expected second coming by claiming it was the invention of the early church. 3. Eschatological preterists deny expected second coming interpreting the second coming as spiritually fulfilled at Pentecost, or 70 A.D. C. Questions pertaining to the expected second coming 1. Did Jesus teach that He would return in the lifetime of His hearers? cf. Matt. 10:23; Mk. 9:1 2. Did Paul expect Jesus' return in his lifetime? cf. I Thess. 4:17 3. Did the early Christians expect Jesus' second coming imminently in their lifetime? Were they mistaken? Were they embarrassed by the delay? Did they progressively abandon the idea of such expectation? 4. Was the delay of the second coming explained by the apostles as a necessary interim, withthe necessity of godly living in the enigma of the interim? cf. I Thess. 4:1-12; II Thess 2:1,2; 3:6-12; I Pet. 1:5,6,13-16; 2:11,12; 4:7,8; Rev. 2:10,25; 3:3,10,21III. Manner or form of second coming A. In similar manner as ascended Acts 1:11 - "Jesus will come in same way as He went into heaven" 1. Personally 2. Visibly 3. Physically - God once again presents Himself in human form 4. In the clouds - cf. Lk. 21:27; Rev. 1:7 (God's presence?) 5. Descend - I Thess. 4:16 B. Public, for everyone to see. cf. Lk. 17:24; 21:35 1. Not secret or invisible 2. Not localized, as was ascension C. Announced with loud fanfare. cf. I Thess. 4:16; 1. Not silentIV. Timing and sequence of second coming A. Timing and dates of second coming are not known to man Mk. 13:32 - "of that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone" Acts 1:7 - "It is not for you to knows times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority" I Thess. 5:1 - "as to the times and the epochs, brethren, you have no need of anything to be written to you" 1. Timing of second coming is incalculable, unpredictable 2. Is the second coming imminent or impending? a. imminent - soon, at any moment. cf. Rev. 22:7,12,20 b. impending - expected; could be at any time 3. Second coming to be sudden, unannounced a. like a thief in the night - I Thess. 5:2,4; II Pet. 3:10 b. like birth pangs on woman - I Thess. 5:3 4. Christians are to be prepared for second coming at any time a. eagerly awaiting - I Cor. 1:7; Phil. 3:20 b. looking for, anticipating - II Pet. 3:12; Titus 2:13 c. alert and sober - I Thess. 5:6,8; I Pet. 1:13 5. Are there to be prior signs of second coming? a. gospel to be preached to all nations? - Mk. 13:10 b. tribulation? - Mk. 13:19; Rev. 7:14 c. wars, rumors of wars, earthquakes, famine? Mk. 13:7,8 d. abomination of desolation? Mk. 13:14 e. false Christs and prophets? Mk. 13:6,22 f. signs in heavens? Mk. 13:24,25 g. apostasy - II Thess. 2:3; II Tim. 3:1-9 h. man of lawlessness - II Thess. 2:4; antichrist? i. powers, signs, false wonders - II Thess. 2:9 B. Sequence of conjunctive events associated with second coming 1. Diversity of opinion among Christian interpreters; much debate 2. Relation of second coming to a. Rapture - I Thess 4:17 (cf. outline on "Rapture") b. Tribulation - Rev. 7:14? c. Millennium - Rev. 20:2-7 (cf. outline on "Millennium") d. Kingdom - I Cor. 15:24,50; II Tim. 4:1,18 (cf. outline on "Kingdom") e. End of the world - I Cor. 15:24; II Pet. 3:10-12 3. Some premillennialists posit a dual, divided, segmented two-phase second coming. a. Coming "for" the saints - rapture - I Thess. 4:17 b. Coming "with" the saints - revelationV. Purpose of second coming A. Final, decisive intervention of God among men B. Culmination and consummation of the work of Christ inaugurated at the first coming. 1. Completion, consummation of... a. redemption - Lk. 21:28; Rom. 8:23; Eph. 4:30 b. salvation - I Cor. 5:5; Heb. 9:28; I Pet. 1:5 c. sanctification - I Thess. 3:13; 5:23 2. Dead will be resurrected - Jn. 5:29; 6:40; I Cor. 15:23; I Thess. 4:16 3. Judgment - Acts 10:42; 17:31; Rom. 2:16; II Cor. 5:10; II Thess. 2:12; II Tim. 4:1; Heb. 10:30; 12:23; I Pet. 4:5; II Pet. 2:4-9; 3:7; Jude 6; Rev. 20:12 a. heaven - Col. 1:5 (cf. outline on "Heaven") b. hell - Matt. 10:28 (cf. outline on "Hell") 4. Unhindered kingdom of Christ - I Cor. 15:24 5. Victory of Christ will become unmistakably apparent - I Cor. 15:57; Rev. 17:14 C. Complete overthrow of evil 1. World/order of evil will be brought to an end - 2. Satan will be banished - Matt. 25:41; Rev. 20:10 D. New created order 1. Present universe ceases to exist - II Pet. 3:7-10,12 2. New heaven and new earth - II Pet. 3:13; Rev. 21:1 E. Christ will reign forever and ever - Rev. 11:15VI. Christian attitudes toward second coming. A. Extremes to be avoided 1. Inordinate preoccupation with second coming a. calculating timing b. evaluating events - "signs of the times" 2. Denial of expected second coming of Christ 3. Undue fear or excitement about second coming B. Differing orientations 1. Judaic hope was futuristic - waiting for first coming of Christ 2. Christian hope is optimistic - reckons on all that we have in Christ Jesus - I Tim. 1:1 C. Preparation for the second coming of Christ is based on our participation in all that was made available in Christ at His first coming.by James A. FowlerAnd again, in the FARMS research publication, "Early Christians in Disarray: Contemporary LDS Perspectives on the Christian Apostasy" by Noel B. Reynolds:Over the last century there has been an outpouring of newly discovered manuscripts, written during the first Christian centuries, that enables us to get a much clearer picture of what the Christian experience was like in those early times. And as our knowledge of these times grows, the apostasy is again pushed back further, even into the first century. Hugh Nibley was the first LDS author to enter this third phase. Relying on the New Testament, the writings of the apostolic fathers, and the pre-1960 secondary literature that deals with this period, Nibley produced a list of forty "variations on a theme," that theme being that the primitive church would not last long or had already passed away. In this paper prominently published in Church History, he presented his extensive collections of references from the early manuscripts to argue persuasively that the earliest Christian leaders did not expect the church to endure and that many of them came even to lament the passing of the original.1 Though published in an international journal, Nibley's paper was destined to provide a watershed for LDS scholars, focusing their interest in the apostasy on the later decades of the very first century, from which almost no writings have survived. http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/books/?bookid=42&chapid=201All this was in anticipation of a 1st century return of Jesus. No formal structures, general prohibition against marriage (unless you "burn with fire"), increased and fervent missionary work, etc., all assumed a belief that Christ would soon come in their time. Similarly, JS felt that he and the other saints lived in the last days and that they, too should prepare for an imminent Second Coming which never occurred. But, like the rabbi in Fiddler on the Roof was asked about when the Messiah would come, responded, "I don't know, but wouldn't now be wonderful?" Edited July 2, 2012 by Ron Beron
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