Craig Paxton Posted June 21, 2012 Posted June 21, 2012 (edited) For the record... I love the avatar pictures we are each allowed. Cinepro's yoda, paxtons old fashioned china mask, cwald's alien... they are great... makes me picture a face and I know I am likely way way off......????...old fashioned china mask???? Ummm its Guy Fawkes...English Rebel http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Guy_Fawkes Edited June 21, 2012 by Craig Paxton 1
KevinG Posted June 21, 2012 Posted June 21, 2012 (edited) Paxton's mask is Guy "Guido" Fawkes who sought to assassinate James I and place a Catholic monarch back on the English throne. It is the ironic disguise of choice of protesters principly against Scientology and some political anarchists. Edited June 21, 2012 by KevinG
DBMormon Posted June 21, 2012 Author Posted June 21, 2012 (edited) I know this for sure...but freely acknowledge that I could be wrong...so I guess I'm admitting up front that I don't know anything for sure when it comes to spirituallity or religion...because religion lives in that squishy atmosphere between fact and fiction...but I guess its safe to say that religion (pick one) can't all be what they claim...So the one thing you know is that a.) each of them are not what they claim to be or b.) each of them can't claim what they do and all of them be right? Edited June 21, 2012 by DBMormon
Craig Paxton Posted June 21, 2012 Posted June 21, 2012 Then why react if it doesn't apply to you?Then why quote me and than make such a pointed statement? If it was not directed at me...merely say that it was not directed at me and I'd be happy to retract my reaction.
KevinG Posted June 21, 2012 Posted June 21, 2012 Religion resides in that squishy region between known and unknown. Unknown does not make it fiction.Religious history does not even make it religion.Take care not to lose an eternal inheritance over a mess of pottage. That is what putting it on the shelf is all about when it comes to tangential issues like historical figures/stories in the church.
Craig Paxton Posted June 21, 2012 Posted June 21, 2012 (edited) So the one thing you know is that a.) each of them are not what they claim to be or b.) each of them can't claim what they do and all of them be right?oops are you giving me a multiple choice exam...ummm I pick....since there is no emperical way to either prove or disprove the existance of god...(a) is not a logical answer...so I pick (b) Edited June 21, 2012 by Craig Paxton
DBMormon Posted June 21, 2012 Author Posted June 21, 2012 (edited) which one or both.and is that all you know?not being a smart aleck at all just want to see where this goes Edited June 21, 2012 by DBMormon
KevinG Posted June 21, 2012 Posted June 21, 2012 Then why quote me and than make such a pointed statement? If it was not directed at me...merely say that it was not directed at me and I'd be happy to retract my reaction.What pointed statement? I was "just making a statement". You read what you want into it. That's the way you play the game isn't it?
Craig Paxton Posted June 21, 2012 Posted June 21, 2012 Religion resides in that squishy region between known and unknown. Unknown does not make it fiction.Religious history does not even make it religion.Take care not to lose an eternal inheritance over a mess of pottage. That is what putting it on the shelf is all about when it comes to tangential issues like historical figures/stories in the church.KevinG...you are an outspoken zealot of moderation...and while I appreciate your concern for my eternal soul...I don't lose any sleep at night worrying about it
KevinG Posted June 21, 2012 Posted June 21, 2012 KevinG...you are an outspoken zealot of moderation...and while I appreciate your concern for my eternal soul...I don't lose any sleep at night worrying about itThat's good - you should be comfortable with yourself. Although for the life of me I can't figure out why someone who is so self-confident feels the need to condescend to those who have faith in things that are not known.
Craig Paxton Posted June 21, 2012 Posted June 21, 2012 which one or both.and is that all you know?not being a smart aleck at all just want to see where this goesI subscribe to the Donald Rumsfeld philosophy “There are things I know that I know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that I now know I don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things I do not know I don't know.”
Craig Paxton Posted June 21, 2012 Posted June 21, 2012 (edited) That's good - you should be comfortable with yourself. Although for the life of me I can't figure out why someone who is so self-confident feels the need to condescend to those who have faith in things that are not known.There is room for belief and faith in the unknown... surprisingly I would actually have respect for someone who said I don't know but I want to believe it anyway cuz its such a wonderful thing to believe in...even if it isn't true...it makes me feel better to think that it might be...in spite of the conflicting evidence or lack of need for the belief...for me it just feels better to believe...I only have a issues with those who claim to KNOW the unknowable...I freely acknowledge my ignorance on unknowalbe things...personally I enjoy the belief in Santa Clause...its a fun holiday frolic...and it makes Christmas much more enjoyable...heck I even put cookies out for Santa...but do I know that Santa is real....welll those cookies are gone every Christams morning...Hmmm... Edited June 21, 2012 by Craig Paxton
ERayR Posted June 21, 2012 Posted June 21, 2012 I know this for sure...but freely acknowledge that I could be wrong...so I guess I'm admitting up front that I don't know anything for sure when it comes to spirituallity or religion...because religion lives in that squishy atmosphere between fact and fiction...but I guess its safe to say that religion (pick one) can't all be what they claim...I would correct your statement to look like this:I know this for sure...but freely acknowledge that I could be wrong...so I guess I'm admitting up front that I don't know anything for sure when it comes to spirituallity or religion...because religion lives in that squishy atmosphere between fact and fiction....because religion lives in that squishy atmosphere between belief and unbelief... but I guess its safe to say that religion (pick one) can't all be what they claim..
DBMormon Posted June 21, 2012 Author Posted June 21, 2012 (edited) What if someone was awakened out of a sleep in the middle of the night and told specifically to pray for a certain individual, who was nowhere on their mind prior to that. When the next day arrives they receive a phone call later that day from a third party who in relaying information says that this same individual who was prayed for during the night had a major health issue at exactly the time this person was praying for them. That the result was the person felt impressed in the midst of this health concern to move forward with a spiritual decision and not let the health issue dissuade them. This isn't heresay to me... to you yes.. to me, absolute factIn the midst of occasions like this that latter-day saints and others outside the faith experience I can completely understand why some "KNOW" that God is real and that he answers prayers and that he inspires his children to serve others.... that is knowledge. I can also see how some have been given greater knowledge and can testify of that increase. I am ok with people knowing spiritual truths. Now many who say they know may not, but that doesn't take away from those who do Edited June 21, 2012 by DBMormon 1
Craig Paxton Posted June 21, 2012 Posted June 21, 2012 Who here claims to know the unknowable?Stay tuned awhile and I'm sure there will be some who claim knowledge in unknowable things...things that should remain in the relm of belief
DBMormon Posted June 21, 2012 Author Posted June 21, 2012 what is unknowable to you? serious questionAlso what do you see as the biggest three contradictions of the church's truth claims?
Craig Paxton Posted June 21, 2012 Posted June 21, 2012 I would correct your statement to look like this:I know this for sure...but freely acknowledge that I could be wrong...so I guess I'm admitting up front that I don't know anything for sure when it comes to spirituallity or religion...because religion lives in that squishy atmosphere between fact and fiction....because religion lives in that squishy atmosphere between belief and unbelief... but I guess its safe to say that religion (pick one) can't all be what they claim..Naw I'll stick with my original statement...there are many factual things within the relm of religion...and many fictional things as well...and keep in mind that I am using the term religion in its most generic sense...so as not to be offensive
Craig Paxton Posted June 21, 2012 Posted June 21, 2012 What if someone was awakened out of a sleep in the middle of the night and told specifically to pray for a certain individual, who was nowhere on their mind prior to that. When the next day arrives they receive a phone call later that day from a third party who in relaying information says that this same individual who was prayed for during the night had a major health issue at exactly the time this person was praying for them. That the result was the person felt impressed in the midst of this health concern to move forward with a spiritual decision and not let the health issue dissuade them. This isn't heresay to me... to you yes.. to me, absolute factIn the midst of occasions like this that latter-day saints and others outside the faith experience I can completely understand why some "KNOW" that God is real and that he answers prayers and that he inspires his children to serve others.... that is knowledge. I can also see how some have been given greater knowledge and can testify of that increase. I am ok with people knowing spiritual truths. Now many who say they know may not, but that doesn't take away from those who doWhile I respect this experience....and could relate similar experiences in my life...some even more physical in nature that I subscribed to God...I lean toward randomness and just being in tune with circumstances...maybe it’s the universe speaking as one...AND I should add that these experiences are not unique to Mormonism...in fact even atheist have these experiences…so I would ascribe these experiences more to the human condition than to god.
KevinG Posted June 21, 2012 Posted June 21, 2012 (edited) Stay tuned awhile and I'm sure there will be some who claim knowledge in unknowable things...things that should remain in the relm of beliefwhat is unknowable to you? serious questionAlso what do you see as the biggest three contradictions of the church's truth claims?What he said. You are dealing in hypotheticals. Give some examples of your knowledge of those things that are unknowable. Right now you make it sound like anything outside your realm of experience is unknowable - perhaps that is not your intent, but it comes across that way. Edited June 21, 2012 by KevinG
DBMormon Posted June 21, 2012 Author Posted June 21, 2012 I have an unknowable question..... how does Paxton keep posting and not show up in the room as himself or anonymous?
KevinG Posted June 21, 2012 Posted June 21, 2012 I have an unknowable question..... how does Paxton keep posting and not show up in the room as himself or anonymous?There is an option somewhere near log-in that allows you to go into stealth mode. Either that or he is bouncing back and forth and you just don't refresh at the right times.
DBMormon Posted June 21, 2012 Author Posted June 21, 2012 Paxton, you would be good in a debate club.... becasue with that standard of what is real and isn't no one will ever be able to convince you of anything. I can't live like that... no knock on you, we are each built differently, but me personally, I need more then writing everything off as coincidence
DBMormon Posted June 21, 2012 Author Posted June 21, 2012 6 user(s) are reading this topic5 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous usersDBMormon, Verum, cwald, bcuzbcuz, Craig Paxton - caught ya
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