Lehis Priesthood And Interracial Marriages

[zerinus]

This thread is an overflow form this thread started by DavidT. My discussion with J Green reached the following stage, before being split off into this thread. I invite J Green to continue the discussion here.

We don't really have any insight into how the Melchizedek priesthood was administered in pre-exilic times and whether or not any worthy Israelite male could qualify.

We do have some ideas about it. According to D&C 132:39, it was held by a very select handful of high profile prophets. It was not something that was widely available to all Israelites in general. When I said that “any worthy Israelite male could qualify,” I did not mean to imply that it was widely available to everyone. What I meant to convey was that, unlike the Levitical priesthood, it was not ethnically based. There was no restriction on what tribe you came from in order to have it. But those who had it appear to have been a very select handful of high ranking prophets.

But in any case, I'm not referring to lineage in the levitical sense anyway. I'm referring to lineage (or "line" if you will) in the same sense that I have a Melchizedek priesthood lineage that can be traced back to Joseph Smith.

But I was! Allow me to remind you how the conversation went. You had said:

I have long argued that Lehi, Nephi and Jacob have a priestly background. And one of the main motifs from the era of the return (Malachi, Ezra, Nehemiah, etc.) is the priestly issue of intermmariage. It's a striking theme in second temple literature, including the texts from Qumran. There is this sense of division between us and them. So while there are certainly a number of metaphorical uses of color in the BOM, as pointed out by Jeremy and others, there are a few that appear to read better in a more literal sense. And these passage I've always read in a context of priestly separation--it is a natural consequence of intermarriage that Nephi interprets in a spiritual sense. This is a very priestly point of view. It fits the time and background.

You are here implying that the Lamanite curses (so that they would not intermarry with the Nephites) had the same justification or motivation behind it as the “priestly issue of intermarriage” with the Gentiles that the Jews had after the exile into Babylon. My reply to that was that that couldn’t be the case because the Jewish “priestly issue of intermarriage” with the Gentiles had to do with preserving the purity of the race (since the Levitical priesthood was ethnically based), whereas the priesthood of Lehi (not being Levitical) was not ethnically based, therefore the issue of preserving the purity of the race could not have been an issue with the descendents of Lehi in the promised land. To that you replied:

Note that I didn't say anything about a Levitical priesthood. Most LDS scholars consider that Lehi held the Melchizedek priesthood. (The question is what the lineage for this priesthood is.) The word I used was priestly. All the biblical and pseudo-biblical texts for the time period from the exile onward document various Israelite priestly classes fixated on the uncleanliness of intermarriage. It is a very strong motif in priestly literature and thus indicative that this question actually does have something to do with the priesthood, or at the very least the culture of the individuals in the priesthood at the time.

The only way that I can understand that paragraph is that you are still trying to tie up the Jewish priestly prohibition of intermarriage with the Gentiles with that of the intermarriages between the Nephites and Lamanites, by suggesting that the Melchizedek Priesthood was equally lineal as the Levitical priesthood is lineal. If it is not, the my original objection still stands, and there cannot be a connection between the two.

It looks like this conversation is becoming too confused for both of us to follow. Perhaps it would be a good idea to start from the beginning. Can you be kind enough restate for me once again as clearly and concisely as you can exactly what connection do you see between the Jewish priestly prohibition of intermarriage with the Gentiles and the Nephite prohibition of intermarriage with the Lamanites? Once you have done that then maybe we can move forward with this discussion in a more constructive fashion.

[J Green]

Zerinus,

I agree that this conversation has become a little confused. My experience in the few conversations we have had is that I feel that I routinely have to correct assumptions you have made about what I meant in the previous post. Your latest post is no exception in this regard. Every exchange becomes a labor as I try to explain what I really meant as opposed to what you assume I meant in all the previous posts while addressing any new material, and we slowly drift off the main trajectory of what started the conversation in the first place. I don't know why this keeps occurring, and specially with you, but I accept the blame. I'm likely not articulate enough to get my meaning accross on the first go around. But I apologize for any frustration I've caused and wish you the best.

Cheers

[theplains]

What I meant to convey was that, unlike the Levitical priesthood, it was not ethnically based. There was no restriction on what tribe you came from in order to have it.

Can the Levitical Priesthood be held by members who are non-Levites? If yes, when did this practice begin

and what (if any) revelation led to its institution?

Thanks,

Jim

[zerinus]

Zerinus,

I agree that this conversation has become a little confused. My experience in the few conversations we have had is that I feel that I routinely have to correct assumptions you have made about what I meant in the previous post. Your latest post is no exception in this regard. Every exchange becomes a labor as I try to explain what I really meant as opposed to what you assume I meant in all the previous posts while addressing any new material, and we slowly drift off the main trajectory of what started the conversation in the first place. I don't know why this keeps occurring, and specially with you, but I accept the blame. I'm likely not articulate enough to get my meaning accross on the first go around. But I apologize for any frustration I've caused and wish you the best.

Cheers

Now I find that disappointing. I was hoping that I might benefit from the great pearl of wisdom you were offering. Now it looks like I am going to remain forever in the dark. I think that is terribly disappointing—unless, of course, your great pearl of wisdom was hollow, in which case I am not missing anything, am I! Time will always tell.

[zerinus]

Can the Levitical Priesthood be held by members who are non-Levites?

I am guessing that the answer to that question is No; however, since the Melchizedek priesthood can officiate in lesser ordinances, then one holding the Melchizedek priesthood can perform the rites of the Levitical priesthood without being of the tribe of Levi.

If yes, when did this practice begin and what (if any) revelation led to its institution?

Thanks,

Jim

See above. If you are referring to the Nephites, I am guessing that they held the Melchizedek priesthood, and performed the rites of the Aaronic priesthood under the auspices of that higher priesthood.

[Tepui]

Can the Levitical Priesthood be held by members who are non-Levites? If yes, when did this practice begin

and what (if any) revelation led to its institution?

Thanks,

Jim

A righteous 12-year old boy can hold the Levitical Priesthood. It's also called the Aaronic Priesthood.

D&C 107:

6

But there are two divisions or grand heads—one is the Melchizedek Priesthood, and the other is the Aaronic or

a

Levitical Priesthood

.

"and what (if any) revelation led to its institution?"

See D&C 13.

"If you are referring to the Nephites, I am guessing that they held the Melchizedek priesthood, and performed the rites of the Aaronic priesthood under the auspices of that higher priesthood.

"

The Nephites received the Gift of the Holy Ghost, Melchizedek Priesthood to confer, required. Nephi 28:26.

Edited April 8, 2012 by Tepui