Fair Journal - February 2012

[Wiki Wonka]

FAIR Journal Archives

<< Jan 2012

THE FAIR JOURNAL

February 2012

LATIN – apologeticus GREEK – apologetikos Apologetics: “The branch of theology that is concerned with defending or proving the truth of Christian doctrines” (The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, 4th edition, Houghton Mifflin Company, 2009).

ABOUT FAIR

FAIR is a 501©3 non-profit organization and relies on donations to accomplish its work. If you are in the United States, your donation is tax deductible. All contributions are greatly appreciated. To make a donation please click on the following link.

Donate to FAIR

FAIR can be contacted through the internet or the U.S. Postal Service.

Contact FAIR

FAIR, PO Box 491677 Redding, CA 96049-1677

JOURNAL CONTENTS

• Message from the President
  
• Black History Month Articles
  
• Baptism for the Dead
  
• MormonVoices
  
• Updated FAIR Website with New Features
  
• New Article on Seerhood, Pure Language, and Sacred Translation
  
• Donating to FAIR
  
• FAIR Conference
  
• FAIR Study Aids for Sunday School–You Don’t Want to Miss These
  
• FAIR Front Page–Sign Up for this Daily News Service
  
• FAIR Podcasts–Many Exciting, Controversial, and Groundbreaking Podcasts
  
• FAIR Youtube–Lots of New Videos
  
• FAIR Bookstore–Great Specials this Month
  
• FAIR Facebook/Twitter
  
• Mormon Scholars Testify
  
• Ask the Apologist
  

MESSAGE FROM THE PRESIDENT

February is black history month. Many white members of The Church will say “who cares?” or “good for them!” or even “aren’t they over that yet?” and move on about their daily tasks. That’s unwise. With the presidential election in full swing, our faith and our history of race relations has come under the spotlight of public scrutiny and the intensity will continue to grow. As that happens, I am hopeful that we as members are educated to move the discussion forward instead of saying things that are harmful to the Church and hurtful to many of our members.

The United States has a long history of difficult race relations. My home teacher served in the Air Force in the South, and was shocked when he found it unlawful to share a cab off base with his black friend. They couldn’t go into the same restaurants or get their hair cut at the same barbershops. This was in the days of segregated restrooms and water fountains. Most of us, as members, have never had state laws dictating where we are allowed to go and with whom we are allowed to congregate. People can’t tell by looking at you if you are Mormon.

Many of us live in areas that are not racially integrated, so we have never had to examine our long-held beliefs and traditions. Just to give a hint of my thoughts on this–having one or two non-white members of your ward doesn’t really allow you to claim you have a lot of experience in race relations. The reality is that most Mormons live in the Western United States, which has a much lower concentration of blacks. In those those states where LDS are 5% or more of the population, the percentage of blacks does not reach the national average.

• USA 12.6%
  
• Idaho 0.6%
  
• Wyoming 0.8%
  
• Utah 1.1%
  
• Arizona 4.1%
  
• Nevada 8.1%
  

Even in California, which has a large population of Church members, the percentage of blacks is only 6.2%, still below the national average. If one factors in how many blacks actually attend Church with you, it highlights the reality that you probably don’t frequently interact with black Americans. This translates into never needing to examine your traditions and beliefs. Even if you don’t have a racist bone in your body and you love all people as children of God, you may still not realize that some things you say are hurtful or simply untrue.

Here is a list of three myths that are often repeated, and simply must stop.

Myth #1: Blacks couldn’t have the priesthood because they had the curse or mark of Cain

This belief was commonly held by many Protestant denominations in early American history. It was often used as a justification for slavery and reached its peak about the time of the Civil War. Many people who joined the LDS Church brought this teaching into the Church with them. Most Protestants later changed their talking points on this to say the children of Cain were wiped out during Noah’s flood, so the cursing came though the flood through Ham. Therefore, the more modern phrasing of this belief is the so-called “curse of Ham.” But the curse of Cain continued to be taught in the then geographically isolated LDS Church.

While the scriptures do talk about a mark being put on Cain, there is no scriptural explanation of what that mark may be or how it relates to the priesthood. One member of my high priest quorum suggested the mark is likely to be male pattern baldness.

There is a scripture in the Book of Moses talking about the children of Canaan being black (Moses 7:8, but there is no given connection between Cain and Canaan. Just because a name sounds similar, doesn’t make it the same.

Even in the Book of Abraham, the priesthood restrictions were not put on “blacks”, but on the lineage of the Egyptian Pharaoh. This was at the time of Abraham, long before Jesus Christ. If you were alive at that time, it is likely you would have been restricted from that priesthood as well.

Myth #2: Blacks were neutral or less valiant in the pre-existence

This terrible teaching was repudiated by none other than Brigham Young himself. Unfortunately, it continued to be perpetuated by many members throughout our history, and even ended up in books authored by Joseph Fielding Smith.

In an interview, apostle Jeffery R. Holland said the following: “One clear-cut position is that the folklore must never be perpetuated. … I have to concede to my earlier colleagues. … They, I’m sure, in their own way, were doing the best they knew to give shape to [the policy], to give context for it, to give even history to it. All I can say is however well intended the explanations were, I think almost all of them were inadequate and/or wrong.”

For those who are troubled by the fact that explanations given historically are now being repudiated, we have to look at the words of Bruce R. McConkie, who was originally a proponent of those theories. He said,

“Forget everything that I have said, or what President Brigham Young or President George Q. Cannon or whomsoever has said in days past that is contrary to the present revelation. We spoke with a limited understanding and without the light and knowledge that now has come into the world.

“We get our truth and our light line upon line and precept upon precept. We have now had added a new flood of intelligence and light on this particular subject, and it erases all the darkness and all the views and all the thoughts of the past. They don’t matter any more.”

Myth #3: The best example to explain blacks not having the priesthood comes from the Levites. The Levites were able to hold the priesthood, while others were not. This shows how God restricts people of certain lineages from receiving the priesthood just like he did with blacks.

While it may be true that Levites could hold the priesthood while others could not, it has little to do with this issue. The ancient practice where only one group is able to exercise the priesthood and work in the temple has little in common with modern times when everyone is able to hold the priesthood except for one group. Repeating this claim as an explanation doesn’t provide adequate support for the argument, and the claim completely falls apart when we recognize that Joseph Smith, Parley P. Pratt, William Smith, and Orson Hyde all ordained blacks to the priesthood in the 1830s and 1840s. The explanation is not helpful and can be hurtful.

So why couldn’t blacks have the priesthood? Gordon B. Hinckley stated, “I don’t know what the reason was. But I know that we’ve rectified whatever may have appeared to be wrong at the time.”

Men are slow to change in their beliefs. Even in the New Testament, Peter had to be lifted beyond his prejudice to sit and eat with the Gentiles. I hope we all take the time to familiarize ourselves with this topic and not perpetuate the hurtful and harmful myths that have been repeated for so long.

It is worth an hour or two of our time to read several articles on Mormonism and race, so we can help those around us. It will help us relating to African-Americans who join the Church. It will help us in teaching our children in such a way that they won’t make hurtful assumptions. It will help us in keeping our children from falling away as they learn about this past practice. Finally, it will help us in explaining our beliefs to those outside of our faith. It is not only simply worth our time to learn about black history, it is essential.

–Scott Gordon President of FAIR

BLACK HISTORY MONTH ARTICLES

As stated in the president’s message, it is important to take an hour and learn about our history. There are a number of articles on this issue. The following is just a sampling.

History Timeline. This has been updated recently. If there is more that should be added, please let us know.

BLACK HISTORY TIMELINE

A study in Misplaced Apologetics

THE LDS CHURCH AND THE RACE ISSUE by Armand Mauss

LAMANITES, THE SEED OF CAIN, AND POLYGAMY, part of a larger book review and well worth the read.

LAMANITES, THE SEED OF CAIN, AND POLYGAMY by Juliann Reynolds

Blacks and the Priesthood

Mormonism and racial issues/Blacks and the priesthood (FAIR Wiki)

Origin of the priesthood ban

Mormonism and racial issues/Blacks and the priesthood/Origin of the priesthood ban (FAIR Wiki)

Understanding pre-1978 statements

Mormonism and racial issues/Blacks and the priesthood/Understanding pre-1978 statements (FAIR Wiki)

Racism

Racism (MormonVoices)

BAPTISM FOR THE DEAD

There has been an outpouring of outrage over several Jewish names that have been entered into the Church’s family history database. The level of outrage is sometimes difficult for us as Mormons to comprehend. We believe this is an act of love and compassion. Asking us not to do baptisms is akin to being asked not to love someone.

But, upon deeper reflection, I have come to a better understanding of what they may be feeling. There is a long history of forced conversions of Jews. Especially during the time of Nazi Germany, many Jews turned to their Christian neighbors to help save their families. Their children were often baptized to hide their background. Try to imagine turning our children over to the Southern Baptists for baptism, knowing that they would be forced to turn away from our faith. It would be a very difficult event for us.

Given that background, we can understand how the word “baptism” is laden with emotion and bad feelings for Jews. There are terrible German children’s books from the late 1930s that talk about the “poisonous mushroom” in referring to Jews. In one story two girls are observing a Jewish couple coming out of a synagogue. While the story is offensive, we are repeating it here to give you an understanding of the depth of hatred at the time. Remember, this is a children’s book.

The story goes like this (Warning–offensive material to follow):

One girl, Anne, starts by saying, “Do you know our girls’ leader once told us: ‘Just as little as a Negro can be made into a German by baptism, can a Jew be made into a non-Jew.’”

Grete stamps her feet angrily on the ground: “I do not understand these priests who go on baptizing Jews even today. By doing so they admit a criminal mob into the churches.”

Anne concludes: “I believe a time will come when the Christians will curse the clergy who once allowed Jews to enter the Christian Church. For the Jews only want to destroy the Christian Church. And they will destroy it if our clergy go on allowing Jews to enter. There is a saying:

‘If a Jew comes along Wanting a priest to baptize him, Be on your guard and beware; Jew remains always Jew! Baptismal water helps not a jot. That does not make the Jew any better! He is a Devil in Time And remains so through Eternity!’”

(source: http://www.calvin.ed.../gpa/story6.htm)

We as Latter-day Saints should be hypersensitive to anti-Semitism. I am grateful that I have never had to endure the level of antagonism that the Jewish people have had to endure over the centuries.

I was thinking of my relationship with several anti-Mormons and the oft-repeated phrase, “I’ll pray for you.” Of course, my initial thoughts are fine, go ahead, I need all of the prayers I can get. But, then I think about the times this phrase was used as a pejorative expression instead of being an act of love. It is sometimes used as a public rebuke or condemnation. I consider that usage to be offensive depending on the sincerity of the speaker.

Baptism for the dead is not meant to be a public condemnation as it is performed in the sacred space of our temples. But, certain individuals and the media have brought this very private respectful ceremony, this act of love, into the public eye and turned into a condemnation. It is no wonder that people are upset.

I am reminded of a loose film dramatization of the book Ivanhoe. In that movie, the Templar Knights were trying to condemn a Jewish man. He pointed out that they drew their authority from the Church and as he was not a member, they had no power over him. In frustration, they held the man down and “baptized” him. The Jewish man was then asked if he accepted Jesus Christ. He of course said “no.” They then claimed they had the authority to punish him because he was baptized a Christian and was now a heretic for rejecting Christ.

Nobody would truly believe that the Jewish man was Christian, against his will, from a forced baptism, any more than someone should believe that a posthumous baptism would make someone Mormon. That’s because there are two parts to baptism. One is the simple ordinance, or act, of the baptism. The other is the commitment and covenants made with that baptism. Baptizing someone for the dead within our temples may fulfill the ordinance part, but the commitment and covenants have to come from the choice of the individuals involved.

In any case, we have to be sensitive to the beliefs of others and recognize that the nature of family history work is eternal. I’m sure that so long as we are diligent, God will make a path for all of his children to receive the ordinances that they need. Meanwhile, it is very important that we follow Church policy.

Here are two Official Church statements on this issue:

http://www.mormonnew...LDS+Newsroom%29

http://www.mormonnew...LDS+Newsroom%29

Here is an article written by Michael Otterson.

What baptism for the dead means to Mormons by Michael Otterson

MORMONVOICES

Day in and day out, we are being represented and misrepresented in the press. Please join the mailing list at MormonVoices.org and spread the word to your friends and family.

As news articles are posted about Mormonism, we find people of varying beliefs commenting online. There are some who remain glued to the news media waiting for the opportunity to make a negative comment about the Church. At times, this has led to a very one-sided, negative series of comments.

What MormonVoices tries to do is point out important news articles where it would be helpful to have members of the Church make a positive comment about their experiences as a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. We have already had many positive experiences with this, but we need more help. We need you to stand up and be counted as a Latter-day Saint. We need you to sign up.

So, if you are willing to be online and to post in the comments sections of major newspapers, please go to

Sign up for MormonVoices

and sign up. We are going to ask you questions about who you are, but that information is only so we know you better and can better gauge the effectiveness of our program. Personal information will not be shared. Please sign up now.

Additionally, we ask you to invite your friends, relatives, Facebook friends, Google+ circle, and ward members to join MormonVoices and become a volunteer.

Please help us to make a difference. Join now.

UPDATED FAIR WEBSITE

We have updated our FAIR Website to provide a faster response time for you and to reorganize some of our information. Please check us out again at www.fairlds.org

Some new features that we have:

• FAIR Podcasts: http://www.fairlds.o...s/fair-podcasts
  
• FAIR Journal Archive: http://www.fairlds.o...s/fair-journals
  
• Author’s index: http://www.fairlds.org/authors
  

It is now easier for us to make updates to our Website as well. If you find a broken link, please let us know.

NEW FAIR ARTICLE

Seerhood, Pure Language, and Sacred Translation. In this 2011 FAIR Conference presentation, Sam Brown examines what it meant to have prophetic encounters in the early Restoration.

Seerhood, Pure Language, and Sacred Translation by Sam Brown

DONATING TO FAIR

FAIR is labor of love. We are a group of volunteers who spend many hours trying to research and publish information to help members respond to critics. We try to price our conferences to be accessible to as many as possible. But, providing this information does cost money. In all of your charitable giving, please consider donating to FAIR. It is only through your donations that we are able to stay in operation.

If you can donate $10 or $10,000, every dollar helps us.

Donate to FAIR

You can also mail a check to our address:

FAIR PO Box 491677 Redding, CA 96049-1677

FAIR CONFERENCE

For those of you who are wondering, our conference will once again be on the first Thursday and Friday in August at the South Towne Exposition Center in Sandy, Utah. Mark your calendars now. I look forward to seeing you on August 2 and 3.

FAIR STUDY AIDS

The new FAIR Study Aids for Gospel Doctrine has been a huge success. We have received emails from all over the country praising what we have done and begging for more. So if you haven’t checked out the Gospel Doctrine FAIR Study Aid pages, you should do it now. It is a good way to further prepare for your Sunday School class.

FAIR Study Aids, Gospel Doctrine, Book of Mormon

FAIR’S ‘FRONT PAGE’

Do you like the news? Do you spend your time looking for articles about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? Then you need to sign up for the FAIR Front Page daily news briefing. Receive daily updates containing news clippings about how the LDS Church is represented in the media. FAIR’s Front Page (FFP) is a free service; you can un-subscribe at any time. To receive this service just click on the link below, enter your email address in the white box, and push the “Sign-Up” button.

http://www.fairlds.org/

AWARD WINNING FAIR PODCAST

FAIR Examination 8: Aversion Therapy at BYU-Dr. Eugene Thorne by SteveDensleyJr on February 1st, 2012

Dr. Eugene Thorne was a member of the psychology department at BYU during the 1970s and was involved with studies into what is called “aversion therapy.” In this interview, Dr. Thorne explains the studies that were done, and helps clear up some of the misperceptions, false innuendo, and outright lies that have been told regarding aversion therapy.

One of his patients, who is happily married and active in the Church, though wishes to remain anonymous, has made this statement about his experience with aversion therapy at BYU:

“I have absolutely no negative feelings or memories of the experience. It truly didn’t ‘cure’ anything (SSA or lust addiction), but it certainly did not leave any physical or mental ‘scars’ and was carefully and lovingly conducted.”

FAIR Examination 8: Aversion Therapy at BYU–Dr. Eugene Thorne (Podcast)

Mormon FAIR-Cast 73: Purpose, history and offerings of FAIR by SteveDensleyJr on February 8th, 2012

Mike Ash and Martin Tanner discuss the purpose of FAIR, the history of FAIR, various FAIR publications and the topics covered in the 2011 FAIR Conference in this episode of Religion Today that originally aired on July 31, 2011.

Mormon FAIR-Cast 73: Purpose, history and offerings of FAIR

FAIR Examination 9: Polygamy as an Abrahamic Sacrifice–Dr. Valerie Hudson by SteveDensleyJr on February 15th, 2012

The Book of Mormon condemns polygamy and calls it abominable. Modern leaders of the Church have condemned the practice. In light of this, what are we to make of the ancient practice of polygamy and of the practice of polygamy by early Mormons? Does the Book of Mormon contradict the Doctrine & Covenants? What of polygamy in the next life? Is polygamy necessary to exaltation? If polygamy is legalized in the United States, will the Church reinstitute polygamy? In this episode of FAIR Examination, Dr. Valerie M. Hudson shares her thoughts on these and other questions.

While Dr. Hudson was a professor of political science at Brigham Young University, she was listed as one of the “100 Top Global Thinkers of 2009? by Foreign Policy Magazine. In January 2012, she became a Professor and George H.W. Bush Chair in the Bush School of Government and Public Service at Texas A&M University, teaching in the masters of international affairs program. More of her views on polygamy, women and the priesthood, and other women’s issues are discussed in the book Women in Eternity, Women in Zion that she co-authored with Alma Don Sorenson.

FAIR Examination 9: Polygamy as an Abrahamic Sacrifice–Dr. Valerie Hudson

FAIR Issues 31: Translation of the Book of Mormon by SteveDensleyJr on February 23rd, 2012

Among LDS scholars there are at least two main theories regarding the transmission of the Book of Mormon text into English. Some believe in a “tight control” theory and others in a “loose control” theory. Still others believe in a combination of the two. In this article, Michael R. Ash describes these theories.

FAIR Issues 31: Translation of the Book of Mormon

FAIR YOUTUBE

We have uploaded quite a few videos this month. Since Youtube has approved us to upload longer videos, we will be uploading all of our previously uploaded videos as a whole, instead of segments.

Roger Cook gave a lecture at the 2002 FAIR conference called “Christ, The Firstfruits of Theosis” which has been re-uploaded here:

by Roger Cook

We have also re-uploaded a lecture given by FAIR’s own Michael Ash on “The Impact of Mormon Critics on LDS Scholarship.” He does a great job at giving a synopsis of critics attacks and answers to those criticisms.

by Michael Ash

Daniel C. Peterson’s lecture “The Protean Joseph Smith” from the 2002 FAIR conference has also been re-uploaded. He, as always, does a great job with his talk and fills it with wisdom and humor.

by Daniel C. Peterson

Kerry Shirt’s has also given us permission to upload several of his videos to our website. We appreciate Kerry and all of his work and the good he has done for LDS scholarship.

Kerry’s first video is “The Incredible Internal Consistency & Integrity of The Book of Mormon” does just that. He shows some of the many evidences of The Book of Mormon and shows that it is actually an ancient text.

The Incredible Internal Consistency & Integrity of The Book of Mormon by Kerry Shirts

Kerry also discusses the Book of Mormon hit of claiming to have been written in reformed Egyptian in two separate videos.

Proof For Reformed Egyptian by Kerry Shirts

More Proof for reformed Egyptian by Kerry Shirts

He also gives some very interesting insight on the anti-Mormon accusation that Jesus and Satan are brothers. He looks at it logically and discovers that this is actually nothing new, but was taught anciently as well.

Does Mormonism _Really_ Teach Jesus & Satan are Brothers by Kerry Shirts

You can check out all of the videos at the FAIR YouTube Channel. Go to Youtube and search for fairldsorg or go directly to

FAIR YouTube Channel

To help you find things easier, we have added playlists to the Channel here:

FAIR YouTube playlists

FAIR BOOKSTORE

Come to the FAIR Bookstore to find the Internet’s best selection of materials for LDS apologetics. Whether you are looking for books, study aids, DVDs, or audio products, the FAIR Bookstore has what you need. You can begin your browsing by going to our main site.

FAIR Bookstore

Be sure to check out the Clearance Section. We have many older books and some new books with slightly damaged covers that offer great deals to buyers.

FAIR Bookstore – Clearance Section

Clearance Special:

Joseph and Hyrum, Leading as One (Limited to stock on hand.)

Edited by Mark E. Mendenhall, Hal B. Gregersen, Jeffrey S. O’Driscoll, Heidi S. Swinton, and Breck England. Provo, Utah: Religious Studies Center, Brigham Young University, 2010. Hardbound, 6″x9″, 288 pages.

What can we discover about leadership from Joseph and Hyrum as they worked together organizing and operating the Church? This book grew out of a conference of experts in leadership and Church history that explored the friendship of Joseph and Hyrum and the leadership traits of these remarkable and influential men.

• Explores the close friendship of Joseph and Hyrum and Hyrum’s role in providing counsel, support, and leadership.
  
• Provides insights from historians and experts on leadership about how Joseph and Hyrum worked, how they led, and how they encouraged, supported, and sustained others.
  
• Identifies lessons from their lives and teachings that will transform our personal perspective of leadership.
  
• Includes photographs.
  
• Pays tribute to Joseph and Hyrum–and challenges us to be more edifying leaders in our homes, our Church service, and our professional lives.
  

Retail Price: $21.99 Special FAIR Price: $15.39 (30% Discount)

Making Sense of the Doctrine and Covenants (Limited to stock on hand.)

Steven C. Harper. Salt Lake City, Utah: Deseret Book, 2008. Hardbound, 9″x6″, 624 pgs. ISBN: 1590389212

Have you struggled with understanding the Doctrine and Covenants? As a collection of separate and diverse texts, it can be rather daunting to study. After all, it is the only one of the standard works that does not tell its own story.

Making Sense of the Doctrine and Covenants addresses this challenge in a unique way. Rather than giving a verse-by-verse commentary, author Steven C. Harper takes readers on a guided tour through the revelations. Drawing on the earliest manuscripts of those revelations, he provides historically grounded insights into why each revelation was given, what it means, and why it matters.

Chapters on every section of the Doctrine and Covenants begin by delving into the historical record to recreate the question or problem each revelation was given to resolve and end by showing readers the outcomes for individuals and the Church.

Retail Price: $35.95 Special FAIR Price: $24.99 (30% Discount)

Diaries of Charles Ora Card (Limited to stock on hand.)

BYU Religious Studies Center, Provo, Utah, 2006, hardbound. ISBN: 0842526099

Charles Ora Card’s diaries are a rich historical resource chronicling an important period of Mormon history that historian Thomas G. Alexander called “Mormonism in Transition.” The diaries detail the pioneers’ attempt to make the desert blossom as a rose, including their work on the Logan Temple and Tabernacle.

During this era, the Church faced increasing economical and federal legislative pressures. The records accent the everyday struggles of a people; their leadership, both local and Churchwide; and Card’s own capture by U.S. marshals.

Retail Price: $29.95 Special FAIR Price: $17.97 (40% Discount)

Early Mormon Documents, 5 Volume Set (Limited to stock on hand.)

Dan Vogel (Editor), Salt Lake City, Utah: Signature Books.

Over 450 documents relating to pre-1831 Mormon origins, including autobiographical writings, diaries, letters, interviews, reminiscences, and statements.

Includes the previously unpublished: Lucy Mack Smith Preliminary Manuscript for the narrative years 1783-1831, Jesse Smith’s 1829 letter to Hyrum Smith, William Smith’s notes on his family’s pre-church activities, Joseph Smith’s interview with Peter Bauder, Sally Parker’s letter to John Kempton, Emma Smith’s interview with Joseph Smith III, the Don Carlos Smith family records and other significant rare documents relating to Mormon origins, published with scholarly apparata in the most comprehensive compilation yet assembled.

Volume 1: 1996, Hardbound, 6.5×9″, 724 pages: Part I. Joseph Smith Family Testimony

• A. Joseph Smith, Jr., Collection
  
• B. Lucy Mack Smith Collection
  
• C. Joseph Smith, Sr., Collection
  
• D. William Smith Collection
  
• E. Katharine Smith Collection
  
• F. Emma Hale Smith Collection
  
• G. Relatives of Smiths Collection
  
• H. Miscellaneous Smith Family Documents
  

Part II. Mormon Origins in Vermont and New Hampshire A. Miscellaneous Sources B. Miscellaneous Documents

“This book is a collection of primary sources about Joseph Smith, his family and his friends and detractors. The book recreates the original language, which makes it hard to read sometimes, in order to give us a picture of Early Mormonism and Joseph Smith. The book also has several Journals written by Joseph Smith about his life and the early LDS church. The book is well organized and well footnoted making it easy for any researcher or the curious person to find where the actual documents are located. It is recommended to anyone interested in the Mormon Church or is studying it.” –Troy L. Beals of Texas

Volume 2: 1996, Hardbound, 6.5×9″, 724 pages: Part III. Mormon Origins in Palmyra and Manchester, New York

• A. Philastus Hurlbut Collection Examples: Willard Chase Statement, circa 11 December 1833 Lucy Harris Statement, 29 November 1833
  
• B. William H. and Edmund L. Kelley Collection Example: Benjamin Saunders Interview, circa September 1884
  
• C. Charles C. Thorne Collection Example: John H. Gilbert Affidavit, 12 July 1881
  
• D. Arthur B. Deming Collection Example: Caroline Rockwell Smith Statement, 25 March 1885
  
• E. Palmyra Newspapers Examples: Wayne Sentinel, 1824-1836 Palmyra Reflector, 1829-1831
  
• F. Martin Harris Collection Example: Martin Harris Interview with Joel Tiffany, 1859
  
• G. Oliver Cowdery Collection Example: Oliver Cowdery Council Bluffs (IA) Testimony, 21 October 1848
  
• H. John H. Gilbert Collection Example: John H. Gilbert Interview, 1877
  

Volume 3: 2000, Hardbound, 6.5×9″, 650 pages:

Part III. Mormon Origins in Palmyra and Manchester, New York [Continued]

• I. Miscellaneous Early Sources Examples: Eli Bruce Diary, 5 November 1830; William W. Phelps to E. D. Howe, 15 January 1831
  
• J. Miscellaneous Late Sources Examples: Solomon Chamberlain Accounts, 1845 & Circa 1858; Orsamus Turner Account, 1851; Pomeroy Tucker Reminiscence, 1858
  
• K. Miscellaneous Non-Resident Sources Examples: Rochester (NY)Gem, 15 May 1830; Wayne County (PA) Inquirer, Circa May 1830; William E. McLellin to Samuel McLellin, 4 August 1832
  
• L. Miscellaneous Documents Examples: Palmyra (NY) Road Lists, 1817-1822; Palmyra (NY) Highway Survey, 13 June 1820; Smith Manchester (NY) Land Assessment Records, 1821-1823 & 1830; Samuel Jennings Estate Papers, 1822; Alvin Smith Gravestone, 19 November 1823; Lemuel Durfee Account Books, 1827-1829; Palmyra (NY) Presbyterian Church Records, March 1830; Missionaries Covenant, 17 October 1830
  

Volume 4: 2002, Hardbound, 6.5×9″, 482 pages.

Part IV. Mormon Origins in Colesville and Bainbridge, New York

• A. Knight Family Collection Examples: Joseph Knight, Sr., Reminiscence, Circa 1835-1847; Newel Knight Journal, Circa 1846
  
• B. Stowell Family Collection Example: Josiah Stowell, Jr., to John S. Fullmer, 17 February 1843
  
• C. Miscellaneous Early Sources Example: John Sherer to Absalom Peters, 18 November 1830
  
• D. Miscellaneous Late Sources Example: William D. Purple Reminiscence, 28 April 1877
  
• E. Miscellaneous Non-Resident Sources Example: Sally Knight Obituary, 1834
  
• F. Miscellaneous Documents Examples: Bainbridge (NY) Court Record, 20 March 1826; Albert Neely Bill of Costs, 1826; Philip DeZeng Bill of Costs, 1826
  

Part V. Mormon Origins in Harmony, Pennsylvania

• A. Hale-Lewis Family Collection Examples: Isaac Hale Statement, 1834; Joseph and Hiel Lewis Statements, 1879
  
• B. Miscellaneous Early Sources Example: George Peck Account, 1843
  
• C. Miscellaneous Late Sources Example: Michael Morse Interview with William W. Blair, 8 May 1879
  
• D. Miscellaneous Non-Resident Sources Example: Emily Blackman Account, 1873
  
• E. Miscellaneous Documents Examples: Articles of Agreement, 1 November 1825; Harmony (PA) Assessment Records, 1828-1831 Joseph Smith Harmony (PA) Land Records, 1828-1833; George H. Noble and Company vs. Joseph Smith, Jr., 26 August 1830
  

Volume 5: 2003, Hardbound, 6.5×9″, 576 pages.

Part VI. Mormon Origins in Fayette, New York

• A. David Whitmer Collection
  
• B. John Whitmer Collection
  
• C. Miscellaneous Whitmer Family Testimony
  
• D. Miscellaneous Early Sources
  
• E. Miscellaneous Late Sources
  
• F. Miscellaneous Non-Resident Sources
  
• G. Miscellaneous Documents
  
• Appendix A: Early Church Membership in New York
  
• Appendix B: Chronology
  

Retail Price: $214.75 Special FAIR Price: $139.59 (35% Discount) Volume 1: $22.89 Volume 3: $29.67 Volume 4: $29.67

February Specials:

FAIR Bookstore – Monthly Specials

400 Questions and Answers About the Book of Mormon

Susan Easton Black. American Fork, Utah: Covenant Communcations, 2011. Soft Bound, 6 x 9″, 240 pages.

In this engaging volume, renowned gospel scholar and teacher Susan Easton Black explores more than 400 questions — many inspired by her own students — about the Book of Mormon. The book is organized into six chapters that address questions that enhance your knowledge of the coming forth of the Book of Mormon and how this sacred scripture testifies of Christ. These chapters also include queries about Mormon’s abridgment, the plates of Ether, the small plates of Nephi, and Moroni’s final additions to the Book of Mormon. Dr. Black’s answers illuminate and enhance the scriptural text, and many address more complex doctrinal topics in a succinct and sensitive manner.

Colorfully illustrated with more than 80 images, this book is an ideal companion for students and teachers in a variety of settings, from seminary and gospel doctrine class to personal and family scripture study. The research in this book is backed by extensive documentation as well as Dr. Black’s deep and evident love for the subject matter developed over decades of careful study.

Book: Retail Price: $17.99 Special FAIR Price: $14.39 (20% Discount)

Audio CD: Retail: $24.99 Special FAIR Price: $19.99 (20% Discount)

Increase In Learning

David A. Bednar. Salt Lake City, Utah: Deseret Book Company, 2011. Hardcover with DVD, 7.25 x 9.25″, 232 Pages.

“The overarching purpose of Heavenly Father’s great plan of happiness is to provide His spirit children with opportunities to learn,” writes Elder David A. Bednar of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. But how can we best learn the things we need to know and do?

Elder Bednar emphasizes concepts, patterns, and processes that invite each of us to act and learn fundamental truths for ourselves. Declaring that answers to our questions always are found in the doctrines and principles of the restored gospel, he provides a framework in this book for learning those doctrines and understanding with our hearts.

This new interactive book will help you acquire one of the most important skills you’ll ever possess: the power to learn. With its unique blend of print, media, and online resources, it provides patterns for spiritual learning that will lead you to understand and act on gospel truths. Learn how to get the answers you need for yourself!

Read: Features extra-wide margins for recording thoughts and invites readers to ask, ponder, and then apply what they are learning.

Watch: Links throughout the book lead to teaching moments on the DVD, which includes a Q&A session and an exclusive interview with Elder and Sister Bednar.

Retail Price: $26.99 Special FAIR Price: $21.59 (20% Discount)

Tree of Life, From Eden to Eternity

John W. Welch and Donald W. Parry. Provo, Utah: Neal A. Maxwell Institute for Religious Scholarship, Brigham Young University, 2011. Hardcover, 6.25×9.25″, 280 pages.

No image of eternal life is more powerful or persistent than the tree of life. From the paradisiacal Garden of Eden to the apocalyptic New Jerusalem, the tree of life dominates the landscape, being mentioned explicitly more than two dozen times in the Latter-day Saint scriptural canon and alluded to many other times therein. From the temple to the cross, the symbol of the tree of life invites all to come unto Christ, to become planted by rivers of living water, and to bring forth and enjoy the fruits of God’s love that are sweet above all else. This highly informative and beautifully illustrated book contains original essays by leading Latter-day Saint scholars and scholars of other faiths–including Donald W. Parry, Daniel C. Peterson, Andrew C. Skinner, John W. Welch, and Margaret Barker–that focus on the tree of life symbol in the Bible, early Christianity, and the Book of Mormon, as well as in Southeast Asian, Islamic, and Maya temples, cultures, and art.

Contents

• The Cherubim, the Flaming Sword, the Path, and the Tree of Life (Donald W. Parry)
  
• The Tree of Life in the Hebrew Bible and Later Jewish Thought (Andrew C. Skinner)
  
• The Fragrant Tree (Margaret Barker)
  
• The Tree of Life in the New Testament and Christian Tradition (John W. Welch)
  
• The Tree of Life in John’s Gospel (C. Wilfred Griggs)
  
• “I Have Dreamed a Dream”: Lehi’s Archetypal Vision of the Tree of Life (Charles Swift)
  
• The World Tree and Maya Theology (Allen J. Christenson)
  
• The Tree of Life in the Catholic Religious and Liturgical Imagination (Jaime Lara)
  
• The Qur’anic Tree of Life (Daniel C. Peterson)
  
• The Tree of Life in Asian Art, Religion, and Folklore: A Sampling of the Evidence (John M. Lundquist)
  
• The Tree of Life: A Cross-Cultural Perspective in Mormon Art (Richard Oman)
  
• Selected Bibliography (Daniel B. McKinlay)
  

Retail Price: $23.99 Special FAIR Price: $19.19 (20% Discount)

Teachings of the Book of Mormon DVD, 4 Volumes

Hugh W. Nibley, American Fork, Utah: Covenant Communications, re-released 2004, 3 DVDs, 29 hours. ISBN: 159156400X

Transcripts of lectures presented to an Honors Book of Mormon class at Brigham Young University, 1988-1990. Part one contains twenty-nine lectures focusing on 1 Nephi through Mosiah 5. It is vintage Nibley, with his insights, humor, and passionate convictions, discussing a book that he loves and knows so well. Nearly twenty-seven hours of learning.

Hugh W. Nibley, American Fork, Utah: Covenant Communications, 2004, 3 DVD Videos, 27 hours. ISBN: 1591564018

Transcripts of lectures presented to an Honors Book of Mormon class at Brigham Young University, 1988-1990. Part two covers Mosiah 6 through Alma 41 in twenty-seven lectures. It is vintage Nibley, with his insights, humor, and passionate convictions, discussing a book that he loves and knows so well. Nearly twenty-seven hours of learning. Now you can join Dr. Nibley in the second of four Honors Book of Mormon classes that he taught at BYU during 1988–90.

Hugh W. Nibley, American Fork, Utah: Covenant Communications, 2004, 3 DVD Videos, 29 hours. ISBN: 1591564727

Transcripts of lectures presented to an Honors Book of Mormon class at Brigham Young University, 1988-1990. Volume 3 contains lectures on Alma 45 through 3 Nephi 16-20. Now you can join Dr. Nibley in the third of four Honors Book of Mormon classes that he taught at BYU during 1988–90.

Hugh W. Nibley, American Fork, Utah: Covenant Communications, 2003, 3 DVD Videos, 27 hours, 27 lectures. ISBN: 1591564735

Transcripts of lectures presented to an Honors Book of Mormon class at Brigham Young University, 1988-1990. Volume 4 covers 3 Nephi 6 to Moroni 1-10. Now you can join Dr. Nibley in the third of four Honors Book of Mormon classes that he taught at BYU during 1988–90.

Hugh Nibley is one of the best-known and most highly revered of Latter-day Saint scholars. For over forty years this near-legendary teacher has enthralled his readers and listeners with his encyclopedic knowledge, his wit, and his untiring research in defense of Latter-day Saint beliefs.

4 Volume Set Retail Price: $119.80 Special FAIR Price: $92.25 (23% Discount)

Single Volume Retail: $29.95 Special FAIR Price: $23.96 (20% Discount)

Thank you for shopping in our FAIR bookstore!

FAIR FACEBOOK AND TWITTER

We hope you will check out the FAIR Facebook pages and click “Like.” The more that click “Like” the better we do.

FAIR’s Facebook page

We have a new page for MormonVoices

MormonVoices

Our Twitter account:

FAIR’s Twitter Account

We also have a MormonVoices Twitter Account

MormonVoices Twitter Account

MORMON SCHOLARS TESTIFY

Mormon Scholars Testify now has 332 testimonies, representing 142 schools or organizations. There are new testimonies added every week. Many of them have very interesting stories that are uplifting and testimony building. Check out the Website and read the testimonies here:

Mormon Scholars Testify

If you like the testimonies, link to them from your Facebook or other social network.

MORMONTEMPLES.NET

Please don’t forget to link to our Website at Mormontemples.net

ASK THE APOLOGIST

The public is invited to submit questions related to LDS *apologetic* issues to “Ask the Apologist.” This feature can be accessed by clicking on the following link:

Contact FAIR

Mark the box labeled “Questions (for the FAIR apologists).” Then fill in accurate information in the five white boxes and push the “Send Comments” button. All inquiries will be shared with members of the FAIR List and the questioner may receive multiple responses from FAIR volunteers. All responses reflect the opinions of the respondents only and not the official position of FAIR or The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

COPYRIGHT NOTICE & DISCLAIMER

Copyright © 2012 by The Foundation for Apologetic Information and Research (FAIR). All rights are reserved. FAIR is not owned by, controlled by, nor affiliated with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. All research and opinions provided in FAIR publications are the sole responsibility of FAIR and the individual authors who provide the information, and should not be interpreted as official statements of Latter-day Saint history, doctrine, practice or belief.

Foundation for Apologetic Information and Research PO Box 491677 Redding, CA 96049

[JeremyOrbe-Smith]

Fantastic. Keep up the good work, FAIR!

[peacefulleeman]

Myth #3: The best example to explain blacks not having the priesthood comes from the Levites. The Levites were able to hold the priesthood, while others were not. This shows how God restricts people of certain lineages from receiving the priesthood just like he did with blacks.

While it may be true that Levites could hold the priesthood while others could not, it has little to do with this issue. The ancient practice where only one group is able to exercise the priesthood and work in the temple has little in common with modern times when everyone is able to hold the priesthood except for one group. Repeating this claim as an explanation doesn’t provide adequate support for the argument, and the claim completely falls apart when we recognize that Joseph Smith, Parley P. Pratt, William Smith, and Orson Hyde all ordained blacks to the priesthood in the 1830s and 1840s. The explanation is not helpful and can be hurtful.

So why couldn’t blacks have the priesthood? Gordon B. Hinckley stated, “I don’t know what the reason was. But I know that we’ve rectified whatever may have appeared to be wrong at the time.”

Men are slow to change in their beliefs. Even in the New Testament, Peter had to be lifted beyond his prejudice to sit and eat with the Gentiles. I hope we all take the time to familiarize ourselves with this topic and not perpetuate the hurtful and harmful myths that have been repeated for so long.

It is worth an hour or two of our time to read several articles on Mormonism and race, so we can help those around us. It will help us relating to African-Americans who join the Church. It will help us in teaching our children in such a way that they won’t make hurtful assumptions. It will help us in keeping our children from falling away as they learn about this past practice. Finally, it will help us in explaining our beliefs to those outside of our faith. It is not only simply worth our time to learn about black history, it is essential.

–Scott Gordon President of FAIR

Personally I can't understand why Scott would be critical of this "example" of Priesthood restriction?

It's a perfectly valid and reasonable example to show that God does things for his purposes that have nothing to do with "inequality" or "racism".

No one is saying that it's "the reason" alone, etc. Thus, I find it wrong that he would be critical of this. I don't recall off hand God giving a "reason" for the ban and selectiveness in Moses time either.

It's not a "myth", it's a scriptural example of God doing the same exact thing just in reverse.

Further, the claim doesn't fall apart simply because there were "exceptions" that were given the Priesthood.

One is because for all we know there were in fact exceptions, for example maybe someone being adopted or marrying into a tribe would either ban or allow the Priesthood depending on the tribe.

Second, another example is given to explain Gods ways that are not mans ways, is the example of Christ banning Gentiles from being taught the Gospel, however also allowing a couple of exceptions.

Ultimately, Scott made a serious error in being critical of this scriptural example. For one, I've given this scriptural example as well as other related info to many whites and blacks inside and outside of the Church, and I've seen many change their views or have a light bulb go off. I can't tell you the many black members who have greatly appreciated a more balanced perspective to know this information, that God has done similar before, and it's been the furthest thing from "hurtful" as Scott claims it can be.

Mormons find comfort in the Bible examples of Polygamy, so why shouldn't we find comfort in Bible Priesthood restriction examples?

More importantly, information like this is what caused me to not be an anti-mormon anymore and come back to the Church, learning that I had pre-judged the Church.

I saw from the scriptures themselves examples I could liken to issues of our day to explain Gods mind and Will.

Frankly, I'm really at a loss as to why Scott wrote this?

[Calm]

It's not a "myth", it's a scriptural example of God doing the same exact thing just in reverse.

Doing something "in reverse" is not doing the "exact same thing."

Me giving you a hundred dollars is not the exact same thing as me taking one hundred dollars from you and the second occurring is hardly evidence of the probability of the first occurring.

[Arkholt]

The ancient practice where only one group is able to exercise the priesthood and work in the temple has little in common with modern times when everyone is able to hold the priesthood except for one group.

Seems reasonable to me. Exclusive to one group is not the same as exclusive of one group. How does that not make sense?

[peacefulleeman]

I'm not saying it's "exactly" the same, only that it's entirely similar. There is selectivism and exclusionism occurring without any reason given. There is one group given the Priesthood and all other's are excluded.

I just don't understand the "need" to be critical of something from the scriptures given as a related example to something else that's occurred.

Mormon Polygamy and Plural Sealings were not the same as Polygamy of the Bible, but we certainly use the Polygamy of the Bible to show that it's not a bad thing what we did, that God sometimes does command such things. Is Scott going to condemn using Polygamy examples of the Bible to help explain Mormon Polgyamy next? I doubt it. Thus I think Scott made a serious judgment error here.

[Scott Gordon]

I can understand the confusion on this issue. The Levite explanation is commonly used among members, and at first blush seems to be pretty good. But, isn't the purpose of explanations that people can walk away with a better understanding? If that doesn’t happen, then it isn’t a good explanation.

With that in mind, let’s think about the Levite explanation.

The first point is that it is true. Levites were singled out by God to have the priesthood. Sometimes God chooses people for certain things, which means he doesn't choose other people. The same is true with your Bishop. He was singled out and chosen and you weren't. In fact, your whole ward is excluded. Some get called to be General Authorities, which means lots of others are excluded. I could give lots of examples of individuals being singled out.

On the other hand, having someone singled out to be excluded instead of included is very different and more difficult to explain. Imagine a whole ward where all of the men are given the priesthood except one. Questions would be raised. Rumors would start. Would they not? It isn't difficult to argue why someone gets picked, but it is very difficult to argue why a group or individual is excluded. Suddenly there are questions of worthiness.

As I have had discussions with African-Americans, I have seen that the Levite argument simply didn't fly. They didn't connect the dots in the argument that I thought were so clear. In fact, they tended to take great offense to the fact that everyone could have the priesthood except for one small group--namely THEM. Theirs is a group of people who have gone through centuries of being excluded. So why would God choose to do that to them again. The argument didn't clarify the question, it magnified it.

Why was one group excluded? Well, the answer was that they weren't at first, but they were later. Why? And we are back to the old answer, we don't know.

So, it isn't that the fact of exclusion isn't true or false, it is that the discussion of Levites and priesthood doesn’t really apply to this situation because it doesn't help explain the ban. Explanations are supposed to provide answers. This one doesn't.

[orion88]

Myth #1: Blacks couldn’t have the priesthood because they had the curse or mark of Cain

Myth #2: Blacks were neutral or less valiant in the pre-existence

Myth #3: The best example to explain blacks not having the priesthood comes from the Levites.

I would agree that #2 is probably a myth. According to Doctrines of Salvation (still considered

an authoritative work), "There were no neutrals in the war in heaven. All took sides either

with Christ or with Satan. Every man had his agency there, and men receive rewards here

based upon their actions there just as they will receive rewards hereafter for deeds done in

the body. The Negro, evidently, is receiving the reward he merits" (page 66).

"There is a reason why one man is born black and with other disadvantages, while another is

born white with great advantages. The reason is that we once had an estate before we came

here, and were obedient, more or less, to the laws that were given us there. Those who were

faithful in all things there received greater blessings here, and those who were not faithful

received less" (page 61).

I would classify #1 and #3 are inaccurate. Firstly, only the Levites had the Aaronic Priesthood.

The descendants of Manasseh and Ephraim do not hold this priesthood. Secondly, the LDS

Church of decades ago had very definitive reasons why the Blacks were denied the priesthood.

I have never seen any declaration or revelation indicating that the curse was removed.

See the scanned images of The Way to Perfection

[cdowis]

I can understand the confusion on this issue. The Levite explanation is commonly used among members, and at first blush seems to be pretty good. But, isn't the purpose of explanations that people can walk away with a better understanding? If that doesn’t happen, then it isn’t a good explanation.

With that in mind, let’s think about the Levite explanation.

OK.

The first point is that it is true. Levites were singled out by God to have the priesthood. Sometimes God chooses people for certain things, which means he doesn't choose other people. The same is true with your Bishop. He was singled out and chosen and you weren't. In fact, your whole ward is excluded. Some get called to be General Authorities, which means lots of others are excluded. I could give lots of examples of individuals being singled out.

This is where I disagree with your analysis. Your analysis is using exclusion (everybody except the Levites), rather than inclusion. There were many who held the priesthood, including Moses and his father-in-law, as well as Abraham, etc. The Levites were *included* among those allowed to hold the priesthood. Over the centuries, the Lord expanded the inclusion of many groups. Christ came only to the house of Israel, and then Gentiles were added/included to that group.

On the other hand, having someone singled out to be excluded instead of included is very different and more difficult to explain. Imagine a whole ward where all of the men are given the priesthood except one. Questions would be raised. Rumors would start. Would they not? It isn't difficult to argue why someone gets picked, but it is very difficult to argue why a group or individual is excluded. Suddenly there are questions of worthiness.

Correct. You have the tail of the horse instead of its head pulling the wagon. First the Levites, then the Israelites, and the gentiles. Look at it as an expanding circle that grows larger, with more and more added to the priesthood group.

As I have had discussions with African-Americans, I have seen that the Levite argument simply didn't fly.

Of course not because you are misapplying it. Again, you are approaching it as exclusion rather than as inclusion. If you use exclusion, you must explain why Christ did not go to the Gentiles, holding them equal to the Israelites. The explanation of inclusion shows that He first started with the Jews, and then added the gentiles.

They didn't connect the dots in the argument that I thought were so clear. In fact, they tended to take great offense to the fact that everyone could have the priesthood except for one small group--namely THEM. Theirs is a group of people who have gone through centuries of being excluded. So why would God choose to do that to them again. The argument didn't clarify the question, it magnified it.

Why was one group excluded? Well, the answer was that they weren't at first, but they were later. Why? And we are back to the old answer, we don't know.

Why were the gentiles **excluded** from the early church? You've got it all backwards. The priesthood, over the centuries, grew from a small group and now to include the entire world. We don't know why the blacks were not included until recently, no more than why Christ waited to have the gentiles taught the Gospel.

Used properly, the Levite explanation is very useful and positive, that the Lord has **expanded** rather than He *excluded*. Visually, you draw concentric circles -- going from a small circle to a very large one.

So, it isn't that the fact of exclusion isn't true or false, it is that the discussion of Levites and priesthood doesn’t really apply to this situation because it doesn't help explain the ban. Explanations are supposed to provide answers. This one doesn't.

It applies very well. I see nothing from you that makes a better explanation.

Edited February 29, 2012 by cdowis

[Scott Gordon]

cdowis,

I appreciate your thoughts on this, but I see three problems with your argument:

1) As you have your expanding circles of "inclusion" it still means that blacks were excluded. No matter how you look at it, they were left out until later. You can make it sound nicer by calling it inclusion, but sounding nicer doesn't help the one who gets left out. Just tell a player that they weren't picked for a team because you wanted to include MORE players, they just weren't one of the lucky ones. Maybe you will pick them next time. That simply doesn't fly. You are still left trying to explain why they were the last to get picked. You can tell the player it is more inclusive, but they are still devastated.

2) As you apply your theory of inclusion--in 1830 the priesthood went to all men. It even went to black men. During Joseph Smith's lifetime, black men continued to be ordained to the priesthood. We even had a black branch president. They were all included.

Your inclusion theory doesn't explain why it was suddenly reversed under Brigham Young. Are there comments that say, "Joseph Smith was wrong?" Is there a revelation that says "The past 15 years of church practice under the prophet Joseph was wrong?" I haven't see that yet. I don't think it exists. So why full inclusion, and then have the circle be pulled back? That certainly didn't happen to the Levites.

3) Other than saying that there are times when God selects certain groups (Jews, Levites, etc.) what evidence do we have the Levites have anything at all to do with the explanation of modern blacks and the priesthood. How is it related? Why would an ancient practice be related at all? Couldn't this simply be a forced parallel that isn't really very parallel?

While the explanation sounds good on the surface, it still doesn't answer the questions, and it continues to hurt those involved. Just tell them we didn't want them on our team because they weren't very good. That explanation works just as well. Think how well that explanation would fly.

We don't have any revelation giving an explanation. I wish we did. God doesn't seem to work that way. We just need to not fall into the trap of trying to explain why God did something, when we really don't know why.

[orion88]

Your inclusion theory doesn't explain why it was suddenly reversed under Brigham Young. Are there comments that say, "Joseph Smith was wrong?" Is there a revelation that says "The past 15 years of church practice under the prophet Joseph was wrong?" I haven't see that yet. I don't think it exists. So why full inclusion, and then have the circle be pulled back? That certainly didn't happen to the Levites.

We don't have any revelation giving an explanation. I wish we did. God doesn't seem to work that way. We just need to not fall into the trap of trying to explain why God did something, when we really don't know why.

Before you can attempt to explain why does God something, you need to establish that it

was actually God who did it. As far as history is concerned, the LDS Church instituted the

ban without a revelation. It was all based on their interpretation of the scriptures. They were

either operating in the "light" or in "darkness."

[peacefulleeman]

Hi Scott. I appreciate your response here. I won't nit-pick everything you've said to give an alternate way to look at the issue, I simply don't have the time at the moment. Cdowis seems to be doing well in that.

I will only tell you that your entire premise is flawed. I can appreciate your own experience with blacks in explaining the issue, and that according to you blacks didn't take it well, thus you conclude that it is a flawed reasoning and example to use. However, I think that is an errored judgment, and that the problem doesn't reside in using the example, but how it's used.

First you need to look at who you are talking to, their background expectations etc. Second, you need to look at how you are explaining things. To share my own experience. I've spoken with 100's of blacks over the years on this issue (and many more whites), and not a single time have I ever had the experience you have had. Possibly the reason for that is that I know that for some people I simply keep things simple, and don't even get into complex explanations like this, because I know they won't understand. However, that's usually been with non-members or liberal mormons, (or especially anti-mormons who can't understand anything) who can't understand such things yet. I don't recall ever discussing this issue with a faithful mormon (save my mentions) who didn't completely understand the example. Reason being I believe is because they understand the Church. Thus they are able to make the connections.

I can't say who or how you're talking to people, but I've found that those who are reasonable and have a reasonable understanding of God, Scripture, and/or Mormonism (without the hate) entirely understand the example. I can't tell you the number of people who have been so grateful, sometimes with tears in their eyes for this example and other things I know of the issue that I've shared that has helped them love the Church and God so much more. I once left the Church primarily over this issue and a couple of other big reasons, thus I have an investment and perspective that I think is very valuable, and this "example" from the scriptures is one of them.

It really hurt to see you be critical of it, and not understand that it IS a legitimate and good thing share.

BTW... Wouldn't you have pretty much the same experience with Polygamy and the Bible?

The problem is not the example, it's how and who it's explained I believe. Not to nock you of course. But, this is something very personal to me. I wouldn't be in the Church had I not come to understand things like this, and I know how it helps others also. Please understand this. Thank you.

[peacefulleeman]

Sorry for the misspellings, can't edit yet.

[Scott Gordon]

Hi Peacefull,

I'm glad that explanation worked for you. But, I still don't see an explanation for a modern ban in the ancient practice of Levites. The Levitical priesthood was lineage based. But, not-so with the Melchizedek priesthood.

I suppose you can use it as an example that God sometimes excludes people. Fine. But, again--I don't think it relates to the modern practice. It seems just as useful to say that we don't always understand the workings of God.

(edited to correct a typo)

Edited March 5, 2012 by Scott Gordon