volgadon Posted February 18, 2012 Posted February 18, 2012 I know that the bit about spiritual eyes has been used to discount Martin Harris' witness of the gold plates, but has anyone ever noticed the following episode?http://www.earlychri.../actspeter.htmlAnd when the ninth hour was fully come, they rose up to make prayer. And behold certain widows, of the aged, unknown to Peter, which sat there, being blind and not believing, cried out, saying unto Peter: We sit together here, O Peter, hoping and believing in Christ Jesus: as therefore thou hast made one of us to see, we entreat thee, lord Peter, grant unto us also his mercy and pity. But Peter said to them: If there be in you the faith that is in Christ, if it be firm in you, then perceive in your mind that which ye see not with your eyes, and though your ears are closed, yet let them be open in your mind within you. These eyes shall again be shut, seeing nought but men and oxen and dumb beasts and stones and sticks; but not every eye seeth Jesus Christ. Yet now, Lord, let thy sweet and holy name succour these persons; do thou touch their eyes; for thou art able -that these may see with their eyes.And when all had prayed, the hall wherein they were shone as when it lighteneth, even with such a light as cometh in the clouds, yet not such a light as that of the daytime, but unspeakable, invisible, such as no man can describe, even such that we were beside ourselves with bewilderment, calling on the Lord and saying: Have mercy, Lord, upon us thy servants: what we are able to bear, that, Lord, give thou us; for this we can neither see nor endure. And as we lay there, only those widows stood up which were blind; and the bright light which appeared unto us entered into their eyes and made them to see. Unto whom Peter said: Tell us what ye saw. And they said: We saw an old man of such comeliness as we are not able to declare to thee; but others said: We saw a young man; and others: We saw a boy touching our eyes delicately, and so were our eyes opened. Peter therefore magnified the Lord, saying: Thou only art the Lord God, and of what lips have we need to give thee due praise? and how can we give thee thanks according to thy mercy? Therefore, brethren, as I told you but a little while since, God that is constant is greater than our thoughts, even as we have learned of these aged widows, how that they beheld the Lord in divers forms.-Acts of Peter 21.Alberto Ferreiro explained the importance of this episode for the message of the book. What can only be shown by the power of God is superior to natural perceptions, but is no less real or tangible. In fact, the author of AoP considered it more real and tangible.An episode with a group of old blind widows is perhaps the most mystical in all of the Acta Petri. After hearing that Peter healed a blind widow, they asked him for the same favor. Peter instead agreed to open their 'spiritual eyes' so as to see Jesus. Each of them testified to seeing a spiritual light which opened their spiritual eyes enabling them to see Jesus individually. The opening of spiritual eyes which led to salvation was to be preferred over the desire for physical healing which may soon be forgotten or explained away. If one examines the Acta Petri and the Passio closely, all of the miracles have as their goal to lead people to conversion,or opening of 'spiritual eyes'. Simon Magus, too, at times performed miraculous deeds, but his resulted in 'spiritual blindness' which led to eternal damnation.-Alberto Ferreiro, "Simon Magus in patristic, medieval, and early modern traditions," p. 61. And we also testify that we have seen the engravings which are upon the plates; and they have been shown unto us by the power of God, and not of man. And we declare with words of soberness, that an angel of God came down from heaven, and he brought and laid before our eyes, that we beheld and saw the plates, and the engravings thereon; and we know that it is by the grace of God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, that we beheld and bear record that these things are true. And it is marvelous in our eyes. Nevertheless, the voice of the Lord commanded us that we should bear record of it; wherefore, to be obedient unto the commandments of God, we bear testimony of these things. And we know that if we are faithful in Christ, we shall rid our garments of the blood of all men, and be found spotless before the judgment-seat of Christ, and shall dwell with him eternally in the heavens. And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen.-The Testimony of Three Witnesses. Of course the three witnesses aren't the old blind widows of the AoP, nor were they shown Christ Himself (though they heard God's voice), but the episode is instructive.
why me Posted February 18, 2012 Posted February 18, 2012 The spiritual eyes comment was nothing more than Martin for the thousandth time attempting to explain what happened. He related the incident in various ways but he never denied what he saw or experienced. How would you explain it if you were asked over and over again about what you saw? I just think that he was attempting to be alittle creative that time.
zerinus Posted February 18, 2012 Posted February 18, 2012 I know that the bit about spiritual eyes has been used to discount Martin Harris' witness of the gold plates, but has anyone ever noticed the following episode?http://www.earlychri.../actspeter.htmlAlberto Ferreiro explained the importance of this episode for the message of the book. What can only be shown by the power of God is superior to natural perceptions, but is no less real or tangible. In fact, the author of AoP considered it more real and tangible.Of course the three witnesses aren't the old blind widows of the AoP, nor were they shown Christ Himself (though they heard God's voice), but the episode is instructive.Moses 1:11 But now mine own eyes have beheld God; but not my natural, but my spiritual eyes, for my natural eyes could not have beheld; for I should have withered and died in his presence; but his glory was upon me; and I beheld his face, for I was transfigured before him.D&C 67:10 And again, verily I say unto you that it is your privilege, and a promise I give unto you that have been ordained unto this ministry, that inasmuch as you strip yourselves from jealousies and fears, and humble yourselves before me, for ye are not sufficiently humble, the veil shall be rent and you shall see me and know that I am—not with the carnal neither natural mind, but with the spiritual.11 For no man has seen God at any time in the flesh, except quickened by the Spirit of God.12 Neither can any natural man abide the presence of God, neither after the carnal mind.
altersteve Posted February 18, 2012 Posted February 18, 2012 I read somewhere that Martin using the phrase "spiritual eyes" basically "disproves Mormonism." I had a good laugh about that.
cdowis Posted February 18, 2012 Posted February 18, 2012 The spiritual eyes comment was nothing more than Martin for the thousandth time attempting to explain what happened. He related the incident in various ways but he never denied what he saw or experienced. How would you explain it if you were asked over and over again about what you saw? I just think that he was attempting to be alittle creative that time.I suspect that "spiritual eyes" is a phrase used by the writer, rather than an exact quote of what he actually said. It is not uncommon to shorten a long statement with a quick, clever phrase. As I remember the interview, it did not even pretend to give a word for word recount of what he actually said.
volgadon Posted February 18, 2012 Author Posted February 18, 2012 I don't see a reason to suppose that Martin Harris didn't say "spiritual eyes."
volgadon Posted February 18, 2012 Author Posted February 18, 2012 Moses 1:11 But now mine own eyes have beheld God; but not my natural, but my spiritual eyes, for my natural eyes could not have beheld; for I should have withered and died in his presence; but his glory was upon me; and I beheld his face, for I was transfigured before him.D&C 67:10 And again, verily I say unto you that it is your privilege, and a promise I give unto you that have been ordained unto this ministry, that inasmuch as you strip yourselves from jealousies and fears, and humble yourselves before me, for ye are not sufficiently humble, the veil shall be rent and you shall see me and know that I am—not with the carnal neither natural mind, but with the spiritual.11 For no man has seen God at any time in the flesh, except quickened by the Spirit of God.12 Neither can any natural man abide the presence of God, neither after the carnal mind.Very good references.
cdowis Posted February 18, 2012 Posted February 18, 2012 (edited) del. Edited February 18, 2012 by cdowis
Recommended Posts