Alma 20:17

[inquiringmind]

Lamoni's father was a Lamanite, raised outside the Church, in the tradition of their fathers.

Why would Ammon tell him that if he died unrepentant, he couldn't be saved?

Behold, thou shalt not slay thy son; nevertheless, it were better that he should fall than thee, for behold, he has repented of his sins; but if thou shouldst fall at this time, in thine anger, thy soul could not be saved. (Alma 20:17.)

He wasn't baptized, he hadn't received the gift of The Holy Spirit, and he doesn't seem to know much about the Gospel until Ammon's brothers teach him two chapters later.

...Arise, for I will grant unto you your lives, and I will not suffer that ye shall be my servants; but I will insist that ye shall administer unto me; for I have been somewhat troubled in mind because of the generosity and the greatness of the words of thy brother Ammon; and I desire to know the cause why he has not come up out of Middoni with thee. And Aaron said unto the king: Behold, the Spirit of the Lord has called him another way; he has gone to the land of Ishmael, to teach the people of Lamoni. Now the king said unto them: What is this that ye have said concerning the Spirit of the Lord? Behold, this is the thing which doth trouble me. And also, what is this that Ammon said--if ye will repent ye shall be saved, and if ye will not repent, ye shall be cast off at the last day? And Aaron answered him and said unto him: Believest thou that there is a God? And the king said: I know that the Amalekites say that there is a God, and I have granted unto them that they should build sanctuaries, that they may assemble themselves together to worship him. And if now thou sayest there is a God, behold I will believe. (Alma 22:3-7.)

Is it doctrinally true to say that this king's soul couldn't have been saved if he died in his ignorance, sin, and anger (in chapter 20, before Ammon's brother Aaron taught him the Gospel here in chapter 22)?

Edited January 24, 2012 by inquiringmind

[Nevo]

Is it doctrinally true to say that this king's soul couldn't have been saved if he died in his ignorance, sin, and anger (in chapter 20)?

The traditional saved/damned dichotomy is taught throughout the Book of Mormon: accountable individuals who repent and are baptized are "saved"; those who do not are "damned" (cf. Mark 16:16). This is true, of course. The Atonement only covers the penitent. "Otherwise, justice claimeth the creature and executeth the law" (Alma 42:22).

However, the Doctrine and Covenants provides additional revelation on this subject. Even those who have died in their sins will be "redeemed in the due time of the Lord, after the sufferings of his wrath" so that, ultimately, Christ "saves all the works of his hands, except those sons of perdition who deny the Son after the Father has revealed him." (D&C 76:38, 43). God's punishment, then, has an end (D&C 19:6).

The gospel is preached in the spirit world to "to those who [have] died in their sins, without a knowledge of the truth, or in transgression, having rejected the prophets" (D&C 138:32). They are free to accept it or reject it.

The fate of those who accept the gospel in the spirit world is discussed in sections 76 and 137 of the Doctrine and Covenants. According to Section 76, those "who died without law...who received not the testimony of Jesus in the flesh, but afterwards received it" will inherit the terrestrial kingdom. And Section 137 clarifies that those who have "died without a knowledge of [the] gospel, who would have received it if they had been permitted to tarry, shall be heirs of the celestial kingdom of God."

I think God intends that everyone ultimately "enjoy that [degree of salvation] which they are willing to receive" (see D&C 88:32; cf. Mormon 9:4-5).

Edited January 24, 2012 by Nevo

[CV75]

Behold, thou shalt not slay thy son; nevertheless, it were better that he should fall than thee, for behold, he has repented of his sins; but if thou shouldst fall at this time, in thine anger, thy soul could not be saved. (Alma 20:17.)

paraphrasing: "...thy soul could not be saved, at this time, by my preaching, which is the best opportunity you've ever had to enjoy the Gospel in this life."

[inquiringmind]

paraphrasing: "...thy soul could not be saved, at this time, by my preaching, which is the best opportunity you've ever had to enjoy the Gospel in this life."

Thank you.

That paraphrase makes some sense to me (I just didn't look at it that way.)

[zerinus]

Behold, thou shalt not slay thy son; nevertheless, it were better that he should fall than thee, for behold, he has repented of his sins; but if thou shouldst fall at this time, in thine anger, thy soul could not be saved. (Alma 20:17.)

I think the operative phrase here are "at this time, in thine anger".

There is an old English proverb that says, "As a tree falls, so shall it lie". It comes form these lines, with allusion to Ecclesiastes 11:3:

As a tree falls, so shall it lie;

As a man lives, so shall he die;

As a man dies, so shall he be;

Through all the aeons of eternity.

There is more truth to that than you might think.

[Nevo]

Behold, thou shalt not slay thy son; nevertheless, it were better that he should fall than thee, for behold, he has repented of his sins; but if thou shouldst fall at this time, in thine anger, thy soul could not be saved. (Alma 20:17.)

I noticed an interesting echo of this scripture last night while reading in 2 Nephi:

"[The kingdom of the devil] must needs be stirred up unto repentance, or the devil will grasp them with his everlasting chains, and they be stirred up to anger, and perish" (2 Nephi 28:19).

In both passages, the elements of repentance, anger, and perishing/not being saved are present. Reminds me of the scene in the movie Crash when Sandra Bullock's character—who is something of a damned soul—says, "I'm angry all the time and I don't know why."

[Nathair/|\]

I think it is the murder of his son that would have pushed him over the line. I'm not sure, though, if it was the heinousness of the murder or if crossing the moral event horizon would have left him incapable of repenting.