Mormon Christology: View Of A Non-Mormon

[altersteve]

The fact that he attained a certain pinnacle that ranked him as a God means he was not a

God before then.

No it doesn't. He has always been God (not just "a God"), even though he "became God" in another sense, and this is made quite clear in authoritative sources of LDS doctrine. These manuals you keep citing are not considered authoritative. Please consider citing authoritative sources instead.

Maybe he's also the spirit brother of Lucifer like Latter-

day Saints believe of Jesus.

Maybe some Latter-day Saints believe Jesus Christ and Satan are "spirit brothers," but I sure don't. Satan has separated himself from God's family, and, as such, he is no longer a brother of mine or of my Savior.

Edited January 31, 2012 by altersteve

[Storm Rider]

Back in November I spoke with 2 senior missionaries from Utah. They are now stationed

at a ward in Toronto.

On the topic of eternal progression, they did acknowledge their belief that Heavenly Father

progressed into becoming a God based on the teachings of their church. They were not

able to answer when I asked them about the God who never progressed into becoming a

God. They believe that teaching of Mr. Smith - "... this is how Heavenly Father became

God" that I mentioned before. The teaching that God is an exalted man is also taught in

chapters 3 and 7 of the manual I mentioned in my last post.

Here is the quote from chapter 7 - "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints,basing

its belief on divine revelation, ancient and modern, proclaims man to be the direct and lineal

offspring of Deity. God Himself is an exalted man, perfected, enthroned, and supreme."

See http://institute.lds...anual/index.asp

I'm not sure about what context you mention but the chapter is about Jesus.

"As far as man is concerned, all things center in Christ. He is the Firstborn of the Father. By

obedience and devotion to the truth he attained that pinnacle of intelligence which ranked

him as a God, as the Lord Omnipotent, while yet in his pre-existent state. As such he

became, under the Father, the Creator of this earth and of worlds without number; and he

was then chosen to work out the infinite and eternal atonement, to come to this particular

earth as the literal Son of the Father, and to put the whole plan of redemption, salvation,

and exaltation in operation" (chapter 4).

The fact that he attained a certain pinnacle that ranked him as a God means he was not a

God before then.

It does not describe at what point he was not a member of the Godhead. I would say that it

was at the time when Heavenly Father himself was not part of the Godhead - when he was

a pre-mortal human and pre-spirit intelligence on his way to progress into becoming a God.

In regards to Jesus also not being part of the Godhead, I refer you to volume 1 of "Articles of

Salvation".

"He [Jesus] is our Elder Brother and was honored by the Father with the fulness of authority

and power as a member of the grand Presidency, of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost."

Jesus at one time did not have this fulness of authority and power ... most likely the time

when he was just an eternal intelligence like Adam. Somehow he was able to progress faster

than Adam and attained a higher level of intelligence than him (Abraham 3:18-24). This was

before the time that Adam and Eve were supposedly born as spirit children to Heavenly Parents

and "reared to maturity in the eternal mansions of the Father, prior to coming upon the earth

in a temporal [physical] body" as Gospel Principles mentions.

This particular Godhead, as you understand it, did not exist before Jesus and Heavenly Father

became Gods. I'm assuming that since the Holy Ghost is considered a spirit person, he too had

some progression into becoming a God. Maybe he's also the spirit brother of Lucifer like Latter-

day Saints believe of Jesus.

I am familiar with IRR but I did not quote from their web site.

Orion, I am getting the impression that you have an agenda or are not really interested in finding any answers to your questions. Please go back and read Abraham 3 that you cited above; pay particular attention to verse 24: And there stood ^aone among them that was like unto God. What do you think that means? At this time, Jesus, the Messiah, the Son of God, a member of the Godhead did not have a physical body as the Father; however, he was like unto God in all other respects. He obviously was recognized as such.

Did a member o the Godhead have any "growing" to do? Well, he obviously felt he needed a physical body because he came to earth and he made the resurrection on of the keystones of his Gospel. Or do you deny that the resurrection was important to Jesus and to the rest of us? Why do you think a resurrected body is a gift if a physical body is not important?

I do not suffer fools lightly. I find that those who try to make hay over Lucifer being related to us as supremely ignorant of the scriptures and God. They are those that pander to the basest nature of carnal man. Please do not try that with me because I will not participate when this ruse is used. I will answer you once. Who created all things? Is Lucifer, though fallen, part of that creation? Does it matter that he is part of us or was at one time? I really hate this type of question because of its shear ignorance and desire to sensationalize appealing to only the most ignorant of humanity. Stop it or I will stop interacting with you. I have tried to use the strongest language possible because I find it so repugnant when this ruse is used.

[orion88]

He has always been God (not just "a God"), even though he "became God" in another sense, and this is made quite clear in authoritative sources of LDS doctrine.

How is it made quite clear in authoritative LDS sources that Heavenly Father became God?

[orion88]

Please go back and read Abraham 3 that you cited above; pay particular attention to verse 24: And there stood ^aone among them that was like unto God. What do you think that means?

I would say someone who is not a Deity. Like in Genesis 3:22 - "And the Lord God said, Behold, the man

is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the

tree of life, and eat, and live for ever."

They had become like God but Adam and Eve were not Deities.

Would you agree with this?

Did a member o the Godhead have any "growing" to do?

I'm not entirely clear about what you mean by growing. Do you mean like a spirit child being reared

to maturity in the pre-mortal life like Gospel Principles says?

Or do you deny that the resurrection was important to Jesus and to the rest of us? Why do you think a resurrected body is a gift if a physical body is not important?

The resurrection is a sign that Jesus defeated death and it provided an atonement in addition to his

sacrificial death for our sins.

I find that those who try to make hay over Lucifer being related to us as supremely ignorant of the scriptures and God.

In my post I did not make hay over your church teaching that Jesus and Lucifer are related in

a family organization. I was just wondering if you believe the Holy Spirit is related to them in

the same way.

Who created all things? Is Lucifer, though fallen, part of that creation? Does it matter that he is part of us or was at one time?

I believe that Jesus created all the angels, including Lucifer.

The two missionaries from Utah (an elderly couple) firmly believed that Heavenly Father

was a man who became a God. They based this on the doctrine of eternal progression and

what Mr. Smith taught. They belong to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

I've also heard this testimony from members of the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ

of Latter Day Saints (The Community of Christ).

Is there a reason why you don't believe as they do?