Laws Of Moses Fulfillment Question

[oMtonic]

This is probably something I should already know the answer to, but I figured that I would ask for the input of others here to contribute to a better understanding of something I was wondering about.

I am in a college class that is about Christian sexual morality. We were asked to read some chapters from the Old Testament for course discussion on Christianity and human sexuality. Some of what we read included Leviticus 18 and 20.

Someone in the class afterwards was troubled by what the Law had to say about sexual activity relative to menstruation and perhaps more particularly on homosexuality. From what I could tell, I think her concern was mostly from the penalties of death associated with breaking those laws. Wanting to take the opportunity to testify of Truth, I wasn't quite sure what to say, but I did think about how these particular laws were part of the Law of Moses. I wondered how applicable they were since Christ had fulfilled the Law of Moses.

So, I suppose I have two main questions I would like to get input on in hopes of increasing my own understanding and to have something to offer when we get to discussing these particular issues in a future class:

1. It seemed the person from class had trouble reconciling how a loving God would instill such severe punishments (death) for breaking those laws. What would you say to her? (A comment from someone else was made about the account in John of the woman taken in adultery and how it seemed that the other people were unworthy to stone her--a possible implication being that the Israelites were not worthy to enforce the penalty of breaking such laws (putting to death), which begs the question why God established them in the first place.)

2. Are the laws against the sexual behavior mentioned in Leviticus 18 and 20 still in force? If they have been fulfilled through the Atonement, what is their relevance to living the Gospel for Christians today (what place do they have in a discussion of Christian sexual morality)? If they have been fulfilled, is the restriction on homosexual behavior simply retained through a commandment outside of the Law of Moses (e.g., we know the definition of marriage, and we have a commandment that states that sexual conduct is only to be had between a married couple)?

I am hoping to have something more to offer in class discussion and in speaking with others.

Thanks in advance!

[Mike Reed]

You were wanting to testify? Is this a private college? If not, then you should save testifying for your activities *outside* of the classroom. If you can't bite your tongue, then you probably shouldn't take religious studies courses at secular institutions. My advice is to avoid value judgements, and simply learn the perspectives/methods/controversies/source materials that the teacher is introducing you to.

Edited September 19, 2011 by Mike Reed

[oMtonic]

You were wanting to testify? Is this a private college? If not, then you should save testifying for your activities *outside* of the classroom. If you can't bite your tongue, then you probably shouldn't take religious studies courses at secular institutions. My advice is to avoid value judgements, and simply learn the perspectives/methods/controversies/source materials that the teacher is introducing you to.

Hello Mike,

The college in question is not a secular institution.

When I use the term testify, I am not speaking about bearing a testimony like is done during a Fast Sunday. The instructor solicits our thoughts pertaining to the course content, and I like taking opportunities to share my perspective on things and share what I believe to be true principles. This is what I am talking about when I say "testify."

Thank you for your advice.

[Cobalt-70]

1. It seemed the person from class had trouble reconciling how a loving God would instill such severe punishments (death) for breaking those laws. What would you say to her? (A comment from someone else was made about the account in John of the woman taken in adultery and how it seemed that the other people were unworthy to stone her--a possible implication being that the Israelites were not worthy to enforce the penalty of breaking such laws (putting to death), which begs the question why God established them in the first place.)

2. Are the laws against the sexual behavior mentioned in Leviticus 18 and 20 still in force? If they have been fulfilled through the Atonement, what is their relevance to living the Gospel for Christians today (what place do they have in a discussion of Christian sexual morality)? If they have been fulfilled, is the restriction on homosexual behavior simply retained through a commandment outside of the Law of Moses (e.g., we know the definition of marriage, and we have a commandment that states that sexual conduct is only to be had between a married couple)?

Leviticus sets forth the Jewish civil law dating around the Persian era. There is no religious reason to interpret it as anything other than that. In Mormonism, you might compare this to the scriptures setting forth the United Order, or Zion in Missouri, which today we ignore because we take these revelations as having a specific context that no longer applies. It would be a mistake to take Leviticus as a call for liberal democracies like the United States to instigate the death penalty for gay sex, because times have changed, and we have liberal values now, like democracy, freedom of association, the right of privacy, and freedom of religion, which the ancient Hebrews did not share or respect. Anyone who thinks that Leviticus is a model for modern law, is no more enlightened than the small minority of Muslims who are seeking to bring back Shariah.

As to the more general question of how a loving god could behave like that, I personally don't think he did. Leviticus was a codification of ancient Hebrew tradition and law dating from the Persian era. Given that the book was not written by Moses after listening to the actual voice of God anyway, I don't take it too literally as a modern guide. But the book has some very beautiful and inspired passages, like Lev. 19:18 and 34, which rabbis like Hillel (not to mention Jesus himself) considered to be the entire Torah in a nutshell. I think people should take these verses, and just ignore the rest of Leviticus.

[Storm Rider]

The Law of Moses was a list of things directing all facets of one's life. It left no room for guidance of the Spirit; that would be unnecessary when you have a list right in front of you. Our Loving God gave this Law to this people because they proved themselves incapable of living any higher type of law. When Jesus came he fulfilled the demands of the Law and directed us to two great commandments and to learn and follow the Spirit. It is a far more demanding law because there are no socially imposed corrections for breaking the Law such as stoning.

The objective is to focus on ourselves and how we are living the gospel rather than checking up on our neighbor to determine their degree of piety.

The difficulty of living the Gospel is that we must live by the Spirit. Is homosexuality wrong? In our day many are blinded and proclaim it is all about loving another person. In doing so they overlook the obvious perversion of the lifestyle. They drink from a bitter cup that offends God and then claim that this thing of blackness is as pure as the driven snow. Their arguments can confuse even the elect and those who have walked with the Spirit.

Now our punishment is not before mankind, but it is before the bar of God. Regardless of how we have rationalized our actions, we each know in our heart of hearts that we have failed our God. If we have not washed our sins away in the blood of the Lamb we will stand condemned for eternity. Is punishment not a viable insinstrumentr a loving God to use? Should a loving God requiring nothing of his children? Instead should we eat, drink and be merry, ignore the plight of our fellow man, the poor, and the orphaned? Then be recompensed by a loving God? This is the cult of stupidity that has invaded Christianity at large. It is a disease of ignorance that poisons the teachings of the Gospel. A loving God has taught his how to return to him and live in his presence. In exchange, he has asked of us to obey his word and his teachings. In exchange, he promises us that we will be joint-heirs with Jesus the Christ. His blood is purchased with our broken hearts and not with the ambivalence born of pride or conscious disobedience.

[LeSellers]

To me, the issue of religious laws (Levitical/Mosaic, or Turn-of-the-era Christian, or modern Christian from Joseph Smith on) has to do with two related, but different, things.

First is the power and import of sex and reproduction in the eternal scheme of things. Our Father and Mother are literally our Father and Mother. They do not take those titles unto Themselves: they earned them. We are to become like Them in all ways. If we abuse sex, we are becoming unlike Them in one of the most important facets of Their (and consequently, our) existence.

Sex is, possibly, only second in power of all our appetite: Food’s being the first. We exist on this earth to determine whether we will obey God in all He commands us. It doesn't matter too much if that thing is sex or food (think fast Sunday and the Word of Wisdom), we are to obey. Obedience is one of the most fundamental characteristics of Godhood: He must obey*.

* Please note that, for Him/Them, obedience is integral to Their beings. It is just as impossible for Them to disobey as it is for me to fly, unassisted, to Cleveland (or perhaps, Chicago). It's not in my nature to do the latter, nor in Theirs to do the former.

Lehi

Edited September 20, 2011 by LeSellers