Doctor Ninja Posted July 4, 2011 Posted July 4, 2011 My linkOf all days. The picture of the Constitution being shredded says it all of what this "article" is all about.
Arkholt Posted July 5, 2011 Posted July 5, 2011 A provocative image used to get people to read the magazine because they wonder what in the heck it could be about. Typical, really.
LeSellers Posted July 5, 2011 Posted July 5, 2011 (edited) The picture of the Constitution being shredded says it all of what this "article" is all about.A provocative image used to get people to read the magazine because they wonder what in the heck it could be about. While it is true that this sort of shocker sells magazines, it would not have been tolerated when I was your age (assuming you're in your mid thirties ±). No one, except extreme liberals and other communists would have stood for it, and Time would not have written the story, would not have published it, and could not have sold a single copy if they had. We have many people, even Saints, who believe the Constitution is a "living document" (which means it is totally worthless). The logical and only rational extension of this thought is that the Constitution does not matter. As Adams said, the Constitution was written for a moral people, and is adequate to govern no others. I'd say that there is precious little morality left, and perhaps we have reached the point the Founders feared: that we would destroy ourselves because we are unable to govern ourselves, and must, therefor, be governed by others. Those who would govern us are ambitious, like Caesar, and they will not tolerate disobedience. In the hymn, we sing "Our fathers' God, ... Author of liberty, to Thee we sing. ... Great God our king." If we, as a people, have dethroned our king, then His Constitution is null and void. We deserve what we will get, and while not all of us have openly rejected Him, neither have we stood our ground and forced them to at least pretend to meet the mores and standards of our once-great country. I used to have a quote that said that standards are always out-of-date, "that's why we call them 'standards'."This land is a promised land. When we stop worshiping the God of the land, which is Jesus Christ, we will reap the natural and supernatural harvest that will inevitably befall us. Lehi Edited July 5, 2011 by LeSellers 1
sunstoned Posted July 5, 2011 Posted July 5, 2011 Religion or belief in god for that matter are not a prerequisite for morality.
LeSellers Posted July 5, 2011 Posted July 5, 2011 Religion or belief in god for that matter are not a prerequisite for morality.Not absolutely, but it helps. If there is no external reason to be moral, and if there is no rock-solid set of morals, then there is much less likelihood of the people being moral. Lehi
sunstoned Posted July 5, 2011 Posted July 5, 2011 Not absolutely, but it helps. If there is no external reason to be moral, and if there is no rock-solid set of morals, then there is much less likelihood of the people being moral. LehiI understand what you are saying, and on some level I agree. But looking back over the history of this nation and of the world in general, I see no correlation between religion and morality.
Deborah Posted July 5, 2011 Posted July 5, 2011 But looking back over the history of this nation and of the world in general, I see no correlation between religion and morality.Given that our judicial system and that of the European nations is based on Judeo-Christian principles I don't know how you can say that. Certainly the founding of the US was based on religious principles of God-given rights.
thesometimesaint Posted July 5, 2011 Posted July 5, 2011 See Treaty of Tripoli.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_TripoliAs the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen... 1
LeSellers Posted July 5, 2011 Posted July 5, 2011 (edited) See Treaty of Tripoli.As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen...This version of the treaty has been refuted. Sorry about the erroneous "REP" point, it was not intentional.Lehi Edited July 5, 2011 by LeSellers
LeSellers Posted July 5, 2011 Posted July 5, 2011 (edited) I understand what you are saying, and on some level I agree. But looking back over the history of this nation and of the world in general, I see no correlation between religion and morality.I'd say you (and me, too, most likely) would be looking at the evidence with a personal confirmation bias. All morals, even religious ones, are personal, so while you could make the argument that the Ku Klux Klan was a "religious" organization whose morals do not correspond to what most of us would consider "moral", I'd counter that the Golden Rule (by most standards, the heart of all morals) is distinctly religious, no matter which of the myriad of sources you might choose to draw it from. But morals based on an Eternal Being's will, even though we must, by necessity, interpret that will and liken it unto ourselves, are far less likely to be immoral than those based solely on what a person sees as moral based solely on his own insights. I'd also say that USmerica was distinctly more religious (and more moral) fifty years ago, when I was a Deacon. I cannot recall a single instance of mob violence arising from a lost basketball game or a won election. But here is an abbreviated list (courtesy of the Drudge Report) of what happened last night after celebrations of "USmerica's birthday": Mob in Peoria shoots fireworks at police, firefighters...MAYHEM IN MOBILE: 300+ fight on street corner, man shot in face...13 stabbed, shot in Boston in just 5 hours...CHICAGOLAND: 5 Dead, 23 Hurt Over Violent Holiday Weekend...4-Year-Old Boy Shot While Watching Baltimore Fireworks...2 Shot During Massive Brawl Outside Atlantic City Casino…Dozens of teens loot store, then attack passersby...We have lost our collective moral compass, a compass I'd say was based on religion. The contemporary topic about courtrooms operating on the Sabbath may or may not reflect a shift in morals (I believe it does), but irrespective of that, God is not held in the same esteem as He was during my childhood. As an officially licensed geezer, I can recall a very different USmerica, indeed, a very different world. It is not better in most respects. And, as I said earlier, it may very well be that the Constitution is no longer adequate to govern us because we are no longer capable of governing ourselves. We, as a people, are grossly lacking in morals. We have stopped serving the God of the Land Who is Jesus Christ. No one, not even atheists, should be surprised when, as He surely will, He wrecks His wrath upon us for our covenant-breaking. Lehi Edited July 5, 2011 by LeSellers 1
Doctor Ninja Posted July 5, 2011 Author Posted July 5, 2011 While it is true that this sort of shocker sells magazines, it would not have been tolerated when I was your age (assuming you're in your mid thirties ±). No one, except the extreme liberals and other communists wold have stood for it, and Time would not have written the story, would not have published it, and could not have sold a single copy it they had. We have many people, even Saints, who believe the Constitution is a "living document" (which means it is totally worthless). This logical and only rational extension of this thought is that the Constitution does not matter. As Adams said, the Constitution was written for a moral people, and is adequate to govern no others. I'd say that there is precious little morality left, and perhaps we have reached the point the Founders feared: that we would destroy ourselves because we are unable to govern ourselves, and must, therefor, be governed by others. Those who would govern us are ambitious, like Caesar, and they will not tolerate disobedience. In the hymn, we sing "Our fathers' God, ... Author of liberty, to Thee we sing. ... Great God our king." If we, as a people, have dethroned our king, then His Constitution is null and void. We deserve what we will get, and while not all of us have openly rejected Him, neither have we stood our ground and forced them to at least pretend to meet the mores and standards of our once-great country. I used to have a quote that said that standards are always out-of-date, "that's why we call them 'standards'."This land is a promised land. When we stop worshiping the God of the land, which is Jesus Christ, we will reap the natural and supernatural harvest that will inevitably befall us. LehiAs always! Well said!
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