Regarding The New Ysa Wards And Stakes

[Duncan]

Well, I don't see how Christ takes a back seat in the example you gave, but to be brutally honest, sex is what brings males and females together. That attraction overcomes many a stumbling block to marriage. While always strong, sex drive in males, which peaks in the late teens early twenties iirc, becomes less of an imperitive as a male gets older. Thus, perceived stumbling blocks in females become more evident or important to males as they age.

Just a theory of mine and not intended to address the entire problem, just a large part of it. But it may be, if one has missed the boat, one has really missed the boat and may have to wait indeed.

From Elder Nelson's example it sounds like members know almost zippo about Christ but they are probably married so it looks good for them for the Celestial Kingdom right? I think too that possiby females want the wait to be worth it so the credentials are higher then maybe it would have been ten years earlier, I dunno!

[Hayds]

So, if understand your point correctly, instead of making changes in things that that they actually have control over, the brethren should concentrate their efforts on fixing the economy?

No. What I am saying is today's YSA's will most likely not get married until their early 30's or after they have graduated and landed stable careers. YSA wards are not a magic pill that will get people to hook up and get married sooner. They will still be holding off on marriage, nothing will change.

[Brian 2.0]

I'll tell you one unintended side-benefit of the YSA program, at least for me... it helped me not question history or doctrine.

When I finally got married, just recently out of the singles ward in my early 30s, I started attending a family ward and living life in a "normal" ward. While before my focus was on social elements and trying to see what girl I might get to date me, I now didn't that that focus and I turned to the real stuff of church. It was then that all my questions and problems with things started.

If I was still single in a singles ward, I probably wouldn't have even cared to ask the questions.

[Duncan]

I'll tell you one unintended side-benefit of the YSA program, at least for me... it helped me not question history or doctrine.

When I finally got married, just recently out of the singles ward in my early 30s, I started attending a family ward and living life in a "normal" ward. While before my focus was on social elements and trying to see what girl I might get to date me, I now didn't that that focus and I turned to the real stuff of church. It was then that all my questions and problems with things started.

If I was still single in a singles ward, I probably wouldn't have even cared to ask the questions.

I have heard that before and if people go inactive it would be for more social reasons rather then doctrinal, I have heard the term "insulated" about YSA wards-

[Acris Venator]

If I was still single in a singles ward, I probably wouldn't have even cared to ask the questions.

Interesting. To me, those questions are important. It is important that they be explored, it is important that faith be tested.

Hypothetical: Having gone through your trial prior to meeting your wife, would you still have married her? Would you still have married LDS?

[ELF1024]

Both my ex-wife and my current wife both joined the church as part of our courtship. I don't think I would find a single adult ward to be very interesting.

[Acris Venator]

No. What I am saying is today's YSA's will most likely not get married until their early 30's or after they have graduated and landed stable careers. YSA wards are not a magic pill that will get people to hook up and get married sooner. They will still be holding off on marriage, nothing will change.

I think this is a compelling point that many of our GAs do not fully comprehend. It is almost as if the laws of attraction are being relied on, but the situation is one where those laws lead to the bishop's office for a confession more often than to the altar.

[Brian 2.0]

Hypothetical: Having gone through your trial prior to meeting your wife, would you still have married her? Would you still have married LDS?

Well, my wife was not LDS when we met. She actually joined while we are dating, so it's tough to answer that. But, she's never been into the "one and only true" and "exclusive authority" so her views were already a lot more liberal than mine where when she joined. Funny enough, I ended up then flipping and becoming even more liberal than her in my beliefs.

You just never know what will happen with your faith or your spouses.

[Acris Venator]

Well, my wife was not LDS when we met. She actually joined while we are dating, so it's tough to answer that. But, she's never been into the "one and only true" and "exclusive authority" so her views were already a lot more liberal than mine where when she joined. Funny enough, I ended up then flipping and becoming even more liberal than her in my beliefs.

You just never know what will happen with your faith or your spouses.

True enough.

Many converts come into the church through the YSA system. But on the flip side of your wife's situation, there are many who convert without a potential spouse present. They are socialized into wards that are all single, and if they don't marry by the time they are 31 they are forced into wards that they are not accustomed to. For this group, the current system sets them up to become inactives. We would be much more successful with retaining more of them if they were socialized into traditional wards from day one.

[silvermoon383]

Many converts come into the church through the YSA system. But on the flip side of your wife's situation, there are many who convert without a potential spouse present. They are socialized into wards that are all single, and if they don't marry by the time they are 31 they are forced into wards that they are not accustomed to. For this group, the current system sets them up to become inactives. We would be much more successful with retaining more of them if they were socialized into traditional wards from day one.

You keep telling yourself that. I've seen that the loss rate for converts is the same, in and out of the YSA program. The way you talk about YSA retention you make it sound like people are being converted from the activity aspect of the YSA program, not the faith in Christ that the missionaries actually try to teach. While it is true that people will convert because of the social aspects of the Church, once they're truly converted they'll stay active, no matter what kind of a ward they attend.

[Acris Venator]

While it is true that people will convert because of the social aspects of the Church, once they're truly converted they'll stay active, no matter what kind of a ward they attend.

Many people who have a testimony of the Gospel, of the Book of Mormon, and of the verity of Joseph Smith being a prophet stop attending church all the time. So I don't know what you're talking about.

[silvermoon383]

Many people who have a testimony of the Gospel, of the Book of Mormon, and of the verity of Joseph Smith being a prophet stop attending church all the time. So I don't know what you're talking about.

The vast majority of YSAs are faithful and productive members of the Church, not the ward-hopping pleasure-seeking hedonists you claim. Since I don't know what you're talking about I guess we're even.

[Acris Venator]

The vast majority of YSAs are faithful and productive members of the Church,

Less than half of them are active. In fact my Sunday school teacher told me to my face that her dad is a YSA bishop who was trained by Elder Packard in recent months with a group of other new bishops. Packard told them that out of the 75,000 YSAs in Salt Lake City about 29,000 were considered active, and most of them female. That's closer to a third than half.

not the ward-hopping pleasure-seeking hedonists you claim.

Since you are incapable of pointing out where exactly I claimed such about the "vast majority" of YSAs, you don't have a leg to stand on.