MorningStar Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 It just seems like the church can do no right. For example:We're accused of not being very charitable.When we are charitable, we're accused of doing it for PR.What are some other examples?
MorningStar Posted February 6, 2011 Author Posted February 6, 2011 Another comment comes to mind from another thread. Mormons do things because they HAVE to. Christians do things because they WANT to.Apparently we can't engage in good works with pure intentions.
SeattleGhostWriter Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 Another comment comes to mind from another thread. Mormons do things because they HAVE to. Christians do things because they WANT to.Apparently we can't engage in good works with pure intentions.Correction here: Christians can't do anything unless they are felt compelled to by the spiritMormon's can't do anything based on feelings because feelings are deceptive and subjective
nicolasconnault Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 Correction here: Christians can't do anything unless they are felt compelled to by the spiritMormon's can't do anything based on feelings because feelings are deceptive and subjectiveIn the expression "felt compelled to by the spirit" is the word "felt", which implies feelings, which you say are deceptive and subjective. So I don't really understand what you mean.
Questing Beast Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 So the Church was compelled by a need for positive PR to give that $900K to the Operation Smile charity? That, so far, is my favorite donation made by the Church. My heart just aches every time I see a kid pictured with a cleft palate. $900K is going to fix a LOT of them!....
jadams_4242 Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 Another comment comes to mind from another thread. Mormons do things because they HAVE to. Christians do things because they WANT to.Apparently we can't engage in good works with pure intentions. the law of tithing... most beleive because the church has money everybody within its walls get paid large sums of money;; didnt ya know this is why the church was "established"?
SeattleGhostWriter Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 In the expression "felt compelled to by the spirit" is the word "felt", which implies feelings, which you say are deceptive and subjective. So I don't really understand what you mean.You missed the sarcasm in my comment. Evangelical Christians believe that they are compelled to service and obedience by feeling the spirit yet deny the personal revelation of the Holy Spirit as it testifies of the reality of the Book of Mormon and argue that feelings are subjective and deceptive.
SeattleGhostWriter Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 If tithing is not an important doctrine then why do Christian churches have to take up special offerings in order to pay for building loans?
MorningStar Posted February 7, 2011 Author Posted February 7, 2011 So the Church was compelled by a need for positive PR to give that $900K to the Operation Smile charity? That, so far, is my favorite donation made by the Church. My heart just aches every time I see a kid pictured with a cleft palate. $900K is going to fix a LOT of them!....That is way cool. So many times I've heard that the church isn't very charitable or charitable enough, so you bring up some things it helps with only to be told that those were PR moves. *sigh*
CQUIRK Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 It just seems like the church can do no right. For example:We're accused of not being very charitable.When we are charitable, we're accused of doing it for PR.What are some other examples?What do you expect? That's the Adversary's influence for you.
MorningStar Posted February 7, 2011 Author Posted February 7, 2011 Another example:Someone leaves the church and they are offended because people call them or "love bomb" them. They don't want to hear from home teachers, visiting teachers, bishops, Elders Quorum presidents, etc. and complain even though they haven't had their name removed from the records.Someone else gets offended because they left and no one called them or came by. Didn't they care about them at all?!Reminds me of a relative who initiated divorce and complained, "He didn't even try to fight for me!"
keithb Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 So the Church was compelled by a need for positive PR to give that $900K to the Operation Smile charity? That, so far, is my favorite donation made by the Church. My heart just aches every time I see a kid pictured with a cleft palate. $900K is going to fix a LOT of them!....Agreed. Despite some obvious imperfections, the church does help a lot of people around the world.
nicolasconnault Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 So the Church was compelled by a need for positive PR to give that $900K to the Operation Smile charity? That, so far, is my favorite donation made by the Church. My heart just aches every time I see a kid pictured with a cleft palate. $900K is going to fix a LOT of them!....Questing Beast, I hope you'll forgive me but, after reading most of your previous posts, I find it hard not to interpret your comments as sarcastic... I hope you can clear that up for me
Blossom Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 Remember I'm not baptised yet but I do have an opinion.Sometimes, as a person, I'm danged if I do and danged if I don't, and I think that is true from everything from religion to politics.My personal experience with the LDS Church is this: I think they do what they do because they are good people who try to do what is right and fair, and they love God and so show it.Just my opinion, is all.Blessings,Blossom
volgadon Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 http://mychinaconnection.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Far-Side-Damned-if-You-Do-Dont_2.jpg
blueadept Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 I remember when the youth in the ward did a service project of simply washing cars for 3 hours on a Saturday morning. The folks who had their cars washed were totally confused when they didn't need to pay anything since it was a 'service' project. Other churches get recognized for their support in things like 'Habitat for Humanity' and such. This is an area I believe the LDS church can improve on in working with other churches for humanitarian needs in a community IMHO.Another example:Someone leaves the church and they are offended because people call them or "love bomb" them. They don't want to hear from home teachers, visiting teachers, bishops, Elders Quorum presidents, etc. and complain even though they haven't had their name removed from the records. My father was 'love bombed' for 25 years because he didn't know he could have ended it by simply having his name removed from the records. While I blame my father for not knowing the process, I believe it shouldn't take someone in the church 25 years to explain it to him either when he finally resorts to being rude and hoping they go away. An unfortunate circumstance IMO.Someone else gets offended because they left and no one called them or came by. Didn't they care about them at all?!I've never witnessed this one in the LDS church. I don't believe it's possible due to the structure of the church unless the individual has a long string of HT's who don't care. It still seems unlikely to me.Reminds me of a relative who initiated divorce and complained, "He didn't even try to fight for me!" Due to my personal circumstances....NO COMMENT
Vex Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 My father was 'love bombed' for 25 years because he didn't know he could have ended it by simply having his name removed from the records. While I blame my father for not knowing the process, I believe it shouldn't take someone in the church 25 years to explain it to him either when he finally resorts to being rude and hoping they go away. An unfortunate circumstance IMO. Not to pour salt in the wound, but individuals who have been in that situation have also gotten the danged if we do danged if you don't response. That is; if we explain to them that they can stop the visits by having their name removed they become offended because we think they don't want to be members of the Church anymore, or they end up in the situation that your Father was in. It really swings both ways.I've never witnessed this one in the LDS church. I don't believe it's possible due to the structure of the church unless the individual has a long string of HT's who don't care. It still seems unlikely to me.It does happen on occasion in my experience. Again, a sad state of affairs if there ever was one.
blueadept Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 Not to pour salt in the wound, but individuals who have been in that situation have also gotten the danged if we do danged if you don't response. That is; if we explain to them that they can stop the visits by having their name removed they become offended because we think they don't want to be members of the Church anymore, or they end up in the situation that your Father was in. It really swings both ways.Communications and the way one understands one another is ALL about 'danged if we do, danged if we don't' scenario in discussing religion especially at someone's front door.I simply remember the exchange of dialogue where a comment my father made in regards to his church affiliation was made and totally taken out of context by the missionaries...it was a downhill conversation at that point which did lead to the missionaries suggesting he have his name removed. The most ugly approach to knowledge that should have been known long before the ugliness developed IMO.
Questing Beast Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 Questing Beast, on 06 February 2011 - 06:37 PM, said: So the Church was compelled by a need for positive PR to give that $900K to the Operation Smile charity? That, so far, is my favorite donation made by the Church. My heart just aches every time I see a kid pictured with a cleft palate. $900K is going to fix a LOT of them!....Questing Beast, I hope you'll forgive me but, after reading most of your previous posts, I find it hard not to interpret your comments as sarcastic... I hope you can clear that up for me Not the least bit sarcastic.The Org that helps people I love. The dogma that teaches an "us and them" attitude I hate. I don't like "lying for the Lord" in any form, even though I understand it and allow that people will use an "end justifies the means" even in protecting and promoting their religion.When I hear of good things the Church does like the Operation Smile donation I am glad that the Church exists. I have been booted from more than one forum for asserting that the Mormon religion is far more good than bad. My problem isn't with the people or the lifestyle: my problem is solely to do with the Church making claims about its origins that are not supportable from the wider perspective of more comprehensive history. But rather than a mad-on against Mormonism, I have simply lumped it in with ALL other religions. Before, I considered Mormonism possibly the only exception to my belief that all religion is manmade; now I no longer entertain that exception.Religion is for improving people and the world we live in. Mormonism is more dynamic in working for that than any other religion I know of....
todd520 Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 I think it's partially driven by jealousy since LDS have a higher compliance rate - higher attendance on Sundays (PEW research)- hither tithing - higher participation in callings and events- more people reading scripture and praying dailyThe LDS church is more effective in setting clear expectations and using group dynamics to improve compliance. Some people see this as a bad thing.
Vex Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 Communications and the way one understands one another is ALL about 'danged if we do, danged if we don't' scenario in discussing religion especially at someone's front door.I simply remember the exchange of dialogue where a comment my father made in regards to his church affiliation was made and totally taken out of context by the missionaries...it was a downhill conversation at that point which did lead to the missionaries suggesting he have his name removed. The most ugly approach to knowledge that should have been known long before the ugliness developed IMO. Very true. It sucks that it came to a head like that, but often missionaries lack the tact of grown up communication (I should know. I was rather brash in my communications... in fact, I still am, but it's a term of endearment to those who know me well enough).
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