Knowledge Not Commonly Understood?

[Uncle Dale]

An interesting excerpt from Peter Ingersoll's 1833 statement

Another time, the said Joseph, Sen. told me that the best time for digging money,

was, in the heat of summer, when the heat of the sun caused the chests of money

to rise near the top of the ground. You notice, said he, the large stones on the

top of the ground -- we call them rocks, and they truly appear so, but they are,

in fact, most of them chests of money raised by the heat of the sun....

http://www.solomonspalding.com/docs/1834howf.htm#pg233

Compare Joseph Smith, Senior's reported counsel with this excerpt from

Lord Kingsborough's Mexican Antiquities...

It may appear surprising that no mention should occur in this long tribute roll, of silver, pearls, emeralds, and rubies; all

which are enumerated by Spanish historians in the list of the first presents which Montezuma sent to Cortes; of which two wheels,

the one of gold and the other of silver, representing the sun and the moon, formed the most valuable part. The precious green

stones, named Chalchiutles, so often noticed as an article of tribute, were not emeralds, or a stone of much intrinsic value; but

Clavigero and various Spanish writers mention the large emerald which was discovered by a missionary in the province of

Mixteca, which was called _the Heart of the People,_ and on which was carved a bird in the centre of a ring formed out of a

serpent; who, notwithstanding the immense price which he was offered for it, ground it in the presence of the Indians into

powder. The green colour of the stone, its name, and the symbols engraved upon it, lead to the supposition that it was an

omament belonging to some image of Quecalcoatle, who was worshiped under the three names of Quecalcoatle, which signifies

a serpent; Huitzilopuchtli, which means an aquatic bird; and Votan, which is _a heart_ in the Tzendal or Capotecan language.

The following are the Mexican names of various precious stones, which the Tultecas were very skilful in cutting and polishing

_with emery,_ three or four kinds of which are described by Sahagun: -- the Quetzaliztli was the emerald, the literal signification of

which name is _the precious stone;_ the Teuxiuitl was the turquoise; the Tlapalteuxihuitl is supposed to have been the ruby; and

the Xiuhmatlaliztli, the sapphire; the Epiollotli was the pearl; amber was called according to the shades of its colour by three

different names, Apoconalli, Tzalapoconalli, and Iztacapoconalli; the Eztetl was the blood-stone; the Teuilotl was the crystal; and

the Teutetl was a dark stone resembling jet. Sahagun describes, in the first section of the twenty-ninth chapter of his tenth book,

the manner in which the Tultecas discovered precious stones, whether they lay hid in the earth or within other stones, by watching

at sun-rise certain exhalations which rose from the surface of the ground: "They possessed such knowledge respecting precious

stones, that although they were within some other large stone and buried in the earth, they found them by their native ingenuity

and philosophy. They discovered them in places where they were likely to exist in this manner: They got up early in the

morning and proceeded up some rising piece of ground, turning their faces towards the rising sun; and as they walked along they

looked carefully around them to perceive where and in what situation beneath the ground a precious stone was likely to be: they examined more attentively moist and damp spots; and when the sun had completely risen, but more especially when it was beginning

to rise, a fine and subtile vapour collected and rose in the air; and there they discovered the precious stone under the earth

and within some other stone, by seeing the ascent of that vapour. They were the discoverers of the mine of precious stones which

the Mexicans name Xiuitl, which are turquoises, which according to ancient tradition is in a large hill near the city of Teputzotlan,

which bears the name of Xiuhtzoni." It may be interesting to compare this passage of Sahagun with what Diodorus Siculus

says in his second book, of the growth of gems in Arabia, and of their modification into different colours and various degrees of

transparency by the rays and heat of the sun; since the ancient philosophers seem, like the Tultecas, to have believed that the

sun drew a vapour (_______) from precious stones.

Vol. VII, pp. 44-45

http://olivercowdery.com/texts/1831King.htm

Since the Kingsborough comments were not published until c. 1834-35,

it is not likely that Ingersoll borrowed his idea from that very rare,

arcane and expensive British source.

Another oddity, which may demonstrate that the Smith family possessed

knowledge not commonly understood in that day and age.

UD

[mfbukowski]

An interesting excerpt from Peter Ingersoll's 1833 statement

Compare Joseph Smith, Senior's reported counsel with this excerpt from

Lord Kingsborough's Mexican Antiquities...

Since the Kingsborough comments were not published until c. 1834-35,

it is not likely that Ingersoll borrowed his idea from that very rare,

arcane and expensive British source.

Another oddity, which may demonstrate that the Smith family possessed

knowledge not commonly understood in that day and age.

UD

Ok, I'll bite.

And the upshot of this is....?

[Uncle Dale]

Ok, I'll bite.

And the upshot of this is....?

Up until the 1958 ordination of Roy Cheville to the office of

RLDS Presiding Patriarch, we had been taught that the Joseph Smith, Sr.

family were direct descendants of the biblical Patriarch Joseph, through

the lineage of Ephraim, holding the same priesthood as the King of Salem,

and preserving ancient divine rights and privileges.

Kingsborough argues that the Meso-American Indians were the descendants

of the same Israelite Tribes, preserving many of the same customs and

knowledge as Joseph, Ephraim, etc.

While I do not promote the idea that the Smiths were by descent a

holy family and a special priesthood, it appears that they themselves

believed such things -- and that the "magical" knowledge reported in

Joseph Smith, Sr. was regarded in that family as a special heritage.

I'd guess that Joseph Smith, Sr. would have immediately noticed the

connection, between his reported lore of the sun raising precious

"rocks" to the earth's surface, and ancient Meso-Americans locating

precious "stone" by indications brought forth by the sun raising them.

It's not a firm identity of teachings -- but I thought that believers

in the "Patriarchal Priesthood" of the Smith family might be interested.

UD

[jadams_4242]

Up until the 1958 ordination of Roy Cheville to the office of

RLDS Presiding Patriarch, we had been taught that the Joseph Smith, Sr.

family were direct descendants of the biblical Patriarch Joseph, through

the lineage of Ephraim, holding the same priesthood as the King of Salem,

and preserving ancient divine rights and privileges.

Kingsborough argues that the Meso-American Indians were the descendants

of the same Israelite Tribes, preserving many of the same customs and

knowledge as Joseph, Ephraim, etc.

While I do not promote the idea that the Smiths were by descent a

holy family and a special priesthood, it appears that they themselves

believed such things -- and that the "magical" knowledge reported in

Joseph Smith, Sr. was regarded in that family as a special heritage.

I'd guess that Joseph Smith, Sr. would have immediately noticed the

connection, between his reported lore of the sun raising precious

"rocks" to the earth's surface, and ancient Meso-Americans locating

precious "stone" by indications brought forth by the sun raising them.

It's not a firm identity of teachings -- but I thought that believers

in the "Patriarchal Priesthood" of the Smith family might be interested.

UD

interesting indeed; but......