Sweet Hour of Prayer.

[nicolasconnault]

I had a go at meditation last night... And was faced with 2 problems.

1. I have a one-year-old son (makes it very difficult to find "quiet" time)

2. I already have an uncanny ability to relax and clear my mind, so that the meditation experience isn't bringing much to me at this stage

On the second point, I have to explain a bit. Since my teenage years I have found it very easy to relax my mind and body in most environments, including crowded buses/trains, school yards, at home etc. To the great annoyance and envy of my wife, I can drop off to sleep at any time of the day, and have a 10-minute nap that almost completely rejuvenates me. I also find it very difficult to stress about almost anything. I experience nervousness and sometimes feel my stress go up, but for some reason I've very aware of my own emotional limits and I can usually lie down somewhere and "regenerate" for 10 minutes when things get too much. My wife often complains that I ought to show more stress when bad things happen (such as an accident, a disease etc.).

So, when I try to meditate, I do feel relaxed and at peace, but it isn't marginally better than my everyday experience. I assume I haven't yet mastered the art, but since my real purpose is to learn to pray better, I'm not sure I should focus so much on the meditation part. My real problem is falling asleep And I don't just fall asleep when I'm tired, Libs. I can fall asleep at any time when I purposefully relax my mind and body. It's almost as though my brain had learned that meditation is my natural way of going to sleep.

On further thought, it seems that in the brief moment between wakefulness and sleep, my mind goes "walkabout". It's very difficult to describe, but I suppose it prepares to go into dream mode. I find that extremely relaxing, and it puts me to sleep, but instead of being a type of control of one's mind (as seems to be suggested by the posts on meditation here), it's more like a surrender to free thoughts. I have vivid dreams every night, during most of which I am aware of being asleep, dreaming, and able to make decisions. Consequently my dreams are usually very enjoyable and adventurous

I will keep trying meditation, but right now I'm not sure how to keep a hold on my consciousness long enough to experience that environment that seems ideal for prayer.

[3DOP]

Hi Mudcat.

Remember how Jesus answered when the disciples asked Him, "Teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples"? Our Lord replied, "When you pray, say...'" At least that is how it is in Catholic translations of Luke 11:2. We take note of the fact that he gives the words and tells the disciples what to say...which of course are supposed to shape out thoughts. As I am sure you know, Catholics believe and practice vocal prayer, and this is where it is first sanctioned by Christ. I think the benefits of one recollected, quiet, sincere "Our Father" every day upon arising can help anyone to start the day properly. Since every night and day is a picture of death and resurrection, it is especially important to begin our days and end our evenings properly. Just as we want to die in God's grace, so we should want to go to sleep in His grace, with an examination of how well we lived the day just passed. We start the day conforming our wills to the Father's, honoring Him as our own, asking Him to help us to be forgiving of our neighbors so that He may be forgiving of our trespasses. Being daily conscious of the need to forgive, we can usually find material upon which to ask forgiveness in the evening in our examination of conscience. It may be helpful to use a particular penitential Psalm that helps you realize your failings and hope in God's forgiveness during the evenings. Catholics usually recite the De Profundis, Ps. 129 (I think it would be 130 in your Bibles) which begins with the cry of one deep in the knowledge of his own unworthiness..."Out of the depths have I cried to Thee, O Lord; Lord hear my voice."

The evening and morning recollection is only a skeleton. But it gives shape to our every living moment and makes us desire to "flesh out" our prayer lives. The devil wants to make us feel guilty and alienated from God because our own attempts at recollection are distracted, and eventually given up on because of discouragement. The devil fears nothing more that the "effectual fervent prayers of a righteous man." We aren't angels (beings of pure spirit). We are beings of flesh and blood with senses that are consistently bombarding our souls with information. It is unrealistic to expect to be able to ignore every sight, sound, and smell that comes our way, even if we have had the benefit of hiding ourselves away in a private place. Even if we close our eyes in a private place and assume a prayerful posture, our thoughts can be zooming about. We try to minimize it, but God expects our prayers to be human. He knows our individual frailties and He knows our desires.

St. Francis de Sales was counselling an earnest Christian who was discouraged about their lack of fervent conversation with God after repeated efforts to speak and listen. St. Francis suggested that the man or woman (I do not remember the sex) should take consideration of a statue in a niche. For Catholics, the statue has no life of course, but it is constant, remaining "at watch" so to speak 24 hours a day, seven days a week. There is one respect in which we must imitate the statue. If God neither seems to hear us, or we have nothing to say to Him, St. Francis suggests that like the statue, we tell God that recollected or not, distracted or not, for a certain reasonable amount of time every day, we will set aside so that God may speak to us if He wishes, and bring us to life if He wishes. We will present ourselves to God and be as silent and attentive to His voice as we can. Just as God could bring the statue to life, so He can bring His children to life in animated prayer, and He will be pleased at anyone who begins by coming to Him daily to implore that He may teach us to pray. It may be for five minutes, or 15, or more. It surely depends upon our station in life. The working father of children at home can not be as much at long periods of prayer as the widow or working father whose children are grown. St. Francis would not have those who are "statues" to agonize about why God may test them with periodic or constant periods of silence. But we are implored to persevere with faith that God sees our hearts longing for Him.

Rory

[Libs]

I had a go at meditation last night... And was faced with 2 problems.

1. I have a one-year-old son (makes it very difficult to find "quiet" time)

2. I already have an uncanny ability to relax and clear my mind, so that the meditation experience isn't bringing much to me at this stage

On the second point, I have to explain a bit. Since my teenage years I have found it very easy to relax my mind and body in most environments, including crowded buses/trains, school yards, at home etc. To the great annoyance and envy of my wife, I can drop off to sleep at any time of the day, and have a 10-minute nap that almost completely rejuvenates me. I also find it very difficult to stress about almost anything. I experience nervousness and sometimes feel my stress go up, but for some reason I've very aware of my own emotional limits and I can usually lie down somewhere and "regenerate" for 10 minutes when things get too much. My wife often complains that I ought to show more stress when bad things happen (such as an accident, a disease etc.).

So, when I try to meditate, I do feel relaxed and at peace, but it isn't marginally better than my everyday experience. I assume I haven't yet mastered the art, but since my real purpose is to learn to pray better, I'm not sure I should focus so much on the meditation part. My real problem is falling asleep And I don't just fall asleep when I'm tired, Libs. I can fall asleep at any time when I purposefully relax my mind and body. It's almost as though my brain had learned that meditation is my natural way of going to sleep.

On further thought, it seems that in the brief moment between wakefulness and sleep, my mind goes "walkabout". It's very difficult to describe, but I suppose it prepares to go into dream mode. I find that extremely relaxing, and it puts me to sleep, but instead of being a type of control of one's mind (as seems to be suggested by the posts on meditation here), it's more like a surrender to free thoughts. I have vivid dreams every night, during most of which I am aware of being asleep, dreaming, and able to make decisions. Consequently my dreams are usually very enjoyable and adventurous

I will keep trying meditation, but right now I'm not sure how to keep a hold on my consciousness long enough to experience that environment that seems ideal for prayer.

Falling asleep is a big problem for a lot of people who are trying to meditate. They get too relaxed and then just dose off. That's why I suggested a time when you might be more alert, but sounds like it's very easy for you to fall asleep. I am just the opposite. It's difficult for me to fall sleep, which is one of the reason I do the meditation in the evening, to try and relax.

I hear ya about the one year old. Kids can definitely break up a good silence. lol I don't have small children at home, anymore, but I do have a cat and a dog, who sometimes like to jump up on me or rub up against me or otherwise disturb my meditation. If I try and lock them out of the room, they scratch on the door until I let them in.

Very interesting about those lucid dreams! I've had those, but not often. There are whole books written on lucid dreaming...that's a whole other subject...and an interesting one, at that.

[Libs]

Dyer's books is where I initially learned about it, although I haven't read "Getting in the Gap" (I think I might soon!).

I think you will like it.