Changes to the Book of Mormon

[zelder]

I have heard anti mormons claim that the Book of mormon has been changed hundreds of times. I've never worried to much about it but I am interested in seeing what exactly those changes have been. Is there a site I can go to that lists chronologically all the changes that have been made since the first printing?

[LeSellers]

I have heard anti mormons claim that the Book of mormon has been changed hundreds of times. I've never worried to much about it but I am interested in seeing what exactly those changes have been. Is there a site I can go to that lists chronologically all the changes that have been made since the first printing?

Joseph made hundreds of changes himself in three (I believe) two editions published while he was alive. For the most part these were of two kinds: typos and eliminations of redundant phrases (like "and it came to pass"

[Hughes]

For me this is yet another example that the BoM didn't come from God, but from Joseph Smith.

[mapman]

For me this is yet another example that the BoM didn't come from God, but from Joseph Smith.

I'm sure there have been more changes to the Bible. No two manuscripts are exactly the same.

Do you think that slightly different variations in delivering the same message make something uninspired?

[Vex]

For me this is yet another example that the BoM didn't come from God, but from Joseph Smith.

Dern it Mapman! You bet me to it!

[Hughes]

I'm sure there have been more changes to the Bible. No two manuscripts are exactly the same.

Do you think that slightly different variations in delivering the same message make something uninspired?

Not sure what this has to do with the Bible?

My reasoning is thus:

1) Joseph Smith claimed,

[David T]

The claim that the Book of Mormon was translated word-for-word from a supposed golden record is in doubt.

Can you please reference where Joseph makes this 'translated word-for-word' claim? And also, while you're at it, please explain why a translation into one's own idiomatic language is somehow an invalid form of translation.

[Pahoran]

Not sure what this has to do with the Bible?

I'm not sure what your argument has to do with anything, myself. But the Bible is legitimately mentioned because it demonstrates (yet again) your gigantic double standards.

My reasoning is thus:

1) Joseph Smith claimed,

[LeSellers]

The claim that the Book of Mormon was translated word-for-word from a supposed golden record is in doubt.

Link to my source

"The claim that the Book of Mormon was translated word-for-word from a supposed golden record" is not one that Joseph Smith (nor any other Saint) has ever made. Your source, a highly confrontational and hostile one, is the one who made it, so there is no need for any of us to defend it.

CFR that Joseph ever said the Book of Mormon was a word-for-word translation. Antagonistic third parties do not make it.

Lehi

[Hughes]

Can you please reference where Joseph makes this 'translated word-for-word' claim? And also, while you're at it, please explain why a translation into one's own idiomatic language is somehow an invalid form of translation.

Note. No claim was made that Joseph Smith made the claim that it was a word for word translation. However, the scribes do describe this exact thing.

"Emma Smith Bidamon Interview with Edmund C Briggs, 1856

[Hughes]

I'm not sure what your argument has to do with anything, myself. But the Bible is legitimately mentioned because it demonstrates (yet again) your gigantic double standards.

What an idiotic argument. Is that really the best you can do?

The fact that The Book of Mormon was translated into Joseph's English instead of some university-approved standard dialect "clearly demonstrates that the Book of Mormon was not translated by the power of God?"

Speaking as someone who has absolutely no experience of receiving actual inspiration of any kind, much less translating by the power of God, please explain how you conclude that the power of God is constrained by committees of schoolmen?

I don't know any actual Christian who subscribes to such ineffable nonsense.

Regards,

Pahoran

First, in a discussion about the Changes made to the Book of Mormon, the Bible isn't the topic. Maybe a different thread perhaps?

Second, I'm only saying that this is but another example to me that the BoM didn't come from God.

You may have a different feeling, and that's fine. I'm simply voicing my opinion.

[Kevin Christensen]

I have heard anti mormons claim that the Book of mormon has been changed hundreds of times. I've never worried to much about it but I am interested in seeing what exactly those changes have been. Is there a site I can go to that lists chronologically all the changes that have been made since the first printing?

The Critical text project does just this, though not online. But a good summary that is online is here.

http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/jbms/?vol=11&num=2

Kevin Christensen

Pittsburgh, PA

[Jeff K.]

First, in a discussion about the Changes made to the Book of Mormon, the Bible isn't the topic. Maybe a different thread perhaps?

Fatman at the circus: Lets not talk about my diabetes and heart disease, lets instead talk about you being ten pounds overweight. ;}

Not being a respecter of persons (or things) one applies a single standard towards all, including one's self. One can reject that philosophy, but one then rejects what God teaches. Is it fair to criticize the Book of Mormon for somethings while overlooking issues with the Bible. In your criticism explaining how the Book of Mormon's short comings (in your interpretation) feed your lack of belief, do you also apply the same to the Bible?

[volgadon]

I wrote a part of it, as he dictated each sentence, word for word

Emma writing word for word what Joseph dictated, not Joseph translating word for word.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Emma writing word for word what Joseph dictated, not Joseph translating word for word.

Ha, I thought the same thing. Hughes is incapable of using critical thought when it comes to his criticisms of the BoM.

Hughes rejects the BoM because there were changes made to it.

Hughes accepts the Bible regardless of the changes and many manuscripts for the bible.

What are we left to think here?

[daz2]

Roayl Skousen's earliest version text, published by Yale, is available though Amazon for a little more than $20. Also, Don Bradley has an excellent article in the most recent Sunstone regarding the different concepts of how the Book of Mormon was translated--e.g., word-for-word/literal vs. conceptual, and the evidence for each position.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

"Joseph did not render the writing on the gold plates into the English language in his own style of language as many people believe, but every word and every letter was given to him by the gift and power of God (Journal of Oliver B. Huntington, page 168 of typed copy at Utah State Historical Society, Feb. 25, 1881)

Sad, you use a 2nd hand account at best dated more than 50 years after the BoM was finished and you think this counts as credible evidence that JS did indeed recieve ever word from God?

Were in did JS ever claim that he "translated every word, word for word" or that "every word was given to him by the gift of God"?

Hughes, you are trying to win converts here. I am telling you that it does not help your cause to use 2nd and 3rd hand accounts, and it does not help you to muddle the facts and to use a glaring double standard. I suggest you stop it and try something else.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

For me this is yet another example that the BoM didn't come from God, but from Joseph Smith.

Why am I not surprised?

I am sure you will lay out a convincing case for this that is void of double standards?

[Hughes]

I have heard anti mormons claim that the Book of mormon has been changed hundreds of times. I've never worried to much about it but I am interested in seeing what exactly those changes have been. Is there a site I can go to that lists chronologically all the changes that have been made since the first printing?

In my many searches I found this.

http://saintsalive.com/resourcelibrary/mormonism/significant-changes-in-the-book-of-mormon

[BookofMormonLuvr]

"Saints Alive in Jesus" ??? That's worse then UTLM.

[mapman]

Royal Skousen is a fellow that has studied the "changes" (a more correct term would be "variation"). He even knows more about it than the guys at Saints Alive in Jesus. He is the editor of The Book of Mormon: The Earliest Text. On p. xxxv he states:

In summary, the text of the Yale edition [i.e. The Earliest Text ] is a consolidation of the decisions made in the six parts of volume 4 of the Critical Text Project. Over the course of the six parts, I analyzed 5,280 cases of variation (or potential variation). The resulting text, published here for the first time as The Book of Mormon: The Earliest Text, can be briefly characterized numerically as follows:

• 2,241 differences between The Earliest Text and the standard LDS text (this number excludes most cases of grammatical change)
• 606 readings that have never appeared in any standard printed edition [of which] 216 are found in only the original manuscript, . . . 187 are found in only the printer's manuscript . . . (becuase [the original manuscript] is not extant) [,] 88 are found in both [the original manuscript] and [the printer's manuscript] [,] 2 are found in copies of the title page [, and] 113 are conjectural emendations
• 256 readings that either make a difference in meaning or change the spelling of a name (such changes would show up in foreign language translations)
• 131 readings that make the Book of Mormon text more consistent in phraesology or usage
• 34 readings that restore a unique phrase or word choice of the text

He lists 719 important variations in an appendix. Looking through it, one can see that it is apparent that there is nothing shocking. Virtually all the changes were mistakes, intentional additions by Joseph Smith in later editions, or changes in grammar. These are some of the more important variations (the reading in the 1981 edition is listed first):

1 Nephi 8:20

"strait and narrow path"

"straight and narrow path"

1 Nephi 8:31

"feeling their way"

"pressing their way"

1 Nephi 11:18

"mother of Son of God"

"mother of God"

1 Nephi 11:21

"the Son of the Eternal Father"

"the Eternal Father"

1 Nephi 11:32

"the Son of the everlasting God"

"the everlasting God"

1 Nephi 12:18

"the word of the justice"

"the sword of the justice"

1 Nephi 13:32

"awful state of blindness"

"state of awful wickedness"

1 Nephi 13:40

"the Son of the Eternal Father"

"the Eternal Father"

1 Nephi 15:16

"remembered again"

"numbered again"

1 Nephi 15:35

"preparator of it"

"proprietor of it"

1 Nephi 15:36

"rejected from the righteous"

"separated from the righteous"

1 Nephi 17:53

"I will shock them"

"I will shake them"

1 Nephi 20:1

"Judah or out of the waters of baptism"

"Judah"

2 Nephi 1:5

"covenanted this land"

"consecrated this land"

2 Nephi 1:26

"could not restrain"

"could not constrain"

2 Nephi 2:11

"neither holiness nor misery"

"neither happiness nor misery"

2 Nephi 26:9

"Son of righteousness"

"Sun of righteousness"

2 Nephi 30:6

"white and a delightsome people"

"pure and a delightsome people"

2 Nephi 31:18, 19; 33:9

"strait and narrow path"

"straight and narrow path"

Jacob 6:13

"pleasing bar of God"

"pleading bar of God"

Mosiah 17:13

"scourged his skin"

"scorched his skin"

Mosiah 19:24

"ended the ceremony"

"ended the sermon"

Mosiah 21:28

"king Mosiah"

"king Benjamin"

Mosiah 25:6

missing

"and he also read the account of Ammon and his brethren and all their afflictions"

Alma 1:24

"remembered no more"

"numbered no more"

Alma 5:1

"deliver the word"

"declare the word"

Alma 5:35

"hewn down"

"cut down"

Alma 8:23

"church of God"

"churches of God"

Alma 10:2

"son of Giddonah"

"son of Gidanah"

Alma 11:6

"ezrom of silver"

"ezrum of silver"

Alma 11:16

"shiblum"

"shilum"

Alma 17:26

"water of Sebus"

"waters of Sebus"

Alma 17:31

"preserve the flocks"

"restore the flocks"

Alma 22:32

"the line Bountiful"

"the line between the land Bountiful"

Alma 23:12

"Shimnilon"

"Shimnilom"

Alma 24:5

"land of Midian"

"land of Middoni"

Alma 24:20

"destroying the king"

"dethroning the king"

Alma 27:27

"numbered among the people"

"among the people"

Alma 28:1

"the land of Jershon"

"the land"

Alma 28:8

"in the land of Nephi"

"into the land of Nephi"

Alma 33:21

"be healed"

"behold"

Alma 37:21, 24

"these interpreters"

"these directors"

Alma 39:13

"faults and that wrong"

"faults and repair that wrong"

Alma 41:5

"raised to happiness"

"restored to happiness"

Alma 43:14

"descendants"

"dissenters"

Alma 43:17

"chief captain"

"chief commander"

Alma 43:38

"by their swords"

"by their wounds"

Alma 43:45; 44:5

"rites of worship"

"rights of worship"

Alma 46:40

"to which man was subject"

"which was subsequent to man"

Alma 49:5

"preparing their places"

"repairing their places"

Alma 49:28

"matchless power"

"miraculous power"

Alma 51:15

"read it"

"head it"

Alma 51:26

"city of Nephihah"

"city of Moroni"

Alma 53:6

"land of Nephi"

"land of the Nephites"

Alma 55:7

"Moroni appointed Laman and caused that a small number of men should go with him"

"Moroni caused that Laman and a small number of men which was appointed to go with him should go to the city of Gid"

Alma 56:19

"were we preserved"

"were we favored"

Alma 59:8

"came even"

"came over"

Helaman 3:29

"straight and narrow"

"strait and narrow"

3 Nephi 2:12

"rites and the privileges"

"rights and the privileges"

3 Nephi 25:2

"the Son of righteousness"

"the Sun of righteousness"

3 Nephi 28:36

"cleansed from mortality"

"changed from mortality"

Mormon 6:15

"deserted over"

"dissented over"

Ether 9:22

"the Son of righteousness"

"the Sun of righteousness"

Ether 11:4

"brother of Shiblom"

"brother of Shiblon"

Ether 14:28

"hill Comnor"

"hill Comron"

Moroni 10:34

"pleasing bar"

"pleading bar"

"Mulek" should be spelled "Muloch"

"Amalekites" should be "Amlicites"

"Zenock" should be spelled "Zenoch"

"Onidah" should be spelled "Oneidah"

"Morianton" should be spelled "Morionton"

"Ezias" should be spelled "Ezaias"

"Pahoran" shold be spelled "Parhoron"

"Kishkumen" should be spelled "Kishcumen"

"Gadianton" should be spelled "Gaddianton"

"Jacobugath" should be "Jacob-Ugath"

"Angola" should be spelled "Angolah"

"Jeneum" should be spelled "Joneum"

[Monster]

I'm sure there have been more changes to the Bible. No two manuscripts are exactly the same.

Do you think that slightly different variations in delivering the same message make something uninspired?

Maybe

[jadams_4242]

For me this is yet another example that the BoM didn't come from God, but from Joseph Smith.

how many versions do we have of the bible today?

[Robert F. Smith]

Not sure what this has to do with the Bible?

My reasoning is thus:

1) Joseph Smith claimed,

[Hughes]

Interesting that you link to Rich Kelsey, who puts the Book of Mormon and Joseph Smith on trial, but who allows no legitimate defense (Soviet style). If Kelsey were sincere, he would create a transcript of a frank, back-and-forth exchange between two qualified proponents of the opposing positions and let the chips fall where they may. He does not do this because he knows that he would lose his case. All that Mormons ask for is a fair trial.

There are indeed a great many archaic and colloquial forms of English used by Joseph in translating the Book of Mormon, but such is well in line with the statement in II Nephi 31:3 " . . . the Lord God giveth light unto the understanding; for he speaketh unto man according to their language, unto their understanding."

As you can see from my own careful assemblage of the evidence surrounding Joseph's method(s) of translation, at http://www.scribd.co...on-of-Languages , there is no reason for the adoption of some word-for-word plenary theory of translation.

Since Joseph Smith claims it was translated by the gift and power of God, and yet it had to be changed in 1837 to remove the backwoods type phrases, leads me to the simple conclusion it didn't come from God.

Further, since there's no way to verify what was on the plates or not, we are left trusting that Joseph Smith was both completely honest and accurate in his translation or that he even translated anything at all.