Was Joseph Smith really a martyr?

[Analytics]

If you really want to understand what the mob was thinking, I'd suggest you read chapters 10 and 11 of A History of Illinois by Thomas Ford.

While his religious pronouncements didn

[Mudcat]

I apologize if I said anything that was offensive to you, but you did ask the question of why I think Joseph was martyred and what the reasons were.

Respectfully,

Lightbearer

Not at all was I offended, I always find your posts of help. Certainly it seems the CoJCoLDS has made it's stance upon the issue known in your citation. Hope you weren't offended that I brought it up.

As I reflect on it, it's really a rather complicated issue. Several posters seems to point in that direction as well.

I think martyrdom, at least as most perceive it, has quite a bit to with the intentions of the killer just as much as the killed.

Now it would certainly be hard to separate Joseph Smith from his beliefs. And I imagine mobs that are tied to killings don't say much to report the nature of their actions to anyone of relevance, since such actions are prosecutable. It leaves one on speculative grounds.

Admittedly, I would think anyone who fired on Carthage Jail had the death of Joseph Smith as a reason to do so. Their intentions for wanting Joseph Smith dead are a matter of speculation. As I said, I don't think there is much way to separate Joseph Smith from "Mormonism". But to say that his religious beliefs were the motivation towards his death seems to be speculative as well.

Just some thoughts.

Kindest Regards,

Mudcat

[why me]

But to say that his religious beliefs were the motivation towards his death seems to be speculative as well.

Just some thoughts.

Kindest Regards,

Mudcat

It is not speculation at all. It is a fact that he was killed because of his religious beliefs. You must read the newspapers during his time and see just what they were saying about him. Even the Nauvoo Expositor brought up mormon beliefs under his leadership. If he were a protestant preacher, he certainly would not be in prison and he would have been able to make amends for the printing press. It is also known that upon the death the JS, the mobs hoped that his church would just drift away into nothingness. The mob were sorely disappointed.

[Jaybear]

It is not speculation at all. It is a fact that he was killed because of his religious beliefs. You must read the newspapers during his time and see just what they were saying about him. Even the Nauvoo Expositor brought up mormon beliefs under his leadership. If he were a protestant preacher, he certainly would not be in prison and he would have been able to make amends for the printing press. It is also known that upon the death the JS, the mobs hoped that his church would just drift away into nothingness. The mob were sorely disappointed.

If a martyr is one who willingly faces death rather than renouncing his beliefs, and if Smith was killed because of his belief in the doctrine of polygamy, then sorry but he was not a martyr.

JS denied he practiced polygamy. The official teaching of the LDS Church denied polygamy. He sat by while members were excommunicated for "adultry." He destroyed the Expositor which its publishers who were mormon used it to attempt to expose the practice to the general public.

If you define martyr broadly as someone who is killed "because" of his beliefs, then yes he was a martyr. But then so is Lincoln, Kennedy, Bonnie and Clyde, any soldier or leader killed in war, etc.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

If you define martyr broadly as someone who is killed "because" of his beliefs, then yes he was a martyr.

You mean if we define martyr as it is commonly defined as? Or should we use the special pleading of the likes of Jaybear and Analytics?

Fact is that JS was a martyr and there is sufficiant evidence to establish this. Were there other reasons for his death? Yeah? Does that mean that those reasons negate his martyrdom? No.

It is like saying I have a banana cream pie. If I add apples to it it is no longer a pie.

[kolipoki09]

If a martyr is one who willingly faces death rather than renouncing his beliefs, and if Smith was killed because of his belief in the doctrine of polygamy, then sorry but he was not a martyr.

As noted dozens of times before, Joseph Smith's death was more than likely a political assassination. The problem with the Expositor was that it conflated the term "spiritual wifery" with celestial marriage. "Spiritual wifery" was what Bennett was doing. Joseph was not doing this.

JS denied he practiced polygamy. The official teaching of the LDS Church denied polygamy. He sat by while members were excommunicated for "adultry." He destroyed the Expositor which its publishers who were mormon used it to attempt to expose the practice to the general public.

Which members of the Church in Nauvoo were excommunicated for practicing plural marriage when authorized to do so? CFR.

If you define martyr broadly as someone who is killed "because" of his beliefs, then yes he was a martyr. But then so is Lincoln, Kennedy, Bonnie and Clyde, any soldier or leader killed in war, etc.

Are you saying Lincoln and Kennedy weren't martyrs?

Bonnie and Clyde weren't sitting in a jail cell under a promised protection and a fair trial were they? You've oversimplified and ignored a large part of what has already been written here and it shows.