Are LDS prejudiced towards people of other faiths?

[selek]

All religions are pretty much prejudice against other faiths. They all claim they are the "one and only" and are eager to point out how the Bible or their scriptures prove them right.

Sure people of other faiths are tolerant o Go into any church on any given Sunday including LDS, and they will be trashing talking the errors of other faiths and holding their chins up high because they have the "real" knowledge on the things of God.

CFR, Little Jo.

I've been an LDS member for almost twenty years and cannot recall a single instance of someone "trash talking" another faith.

I've attended many different faiths over the last forty years and saw the arrogance you speak of only rarely.

Clearly, your stance is wrong.

I suspect you're operating from an ignorant and bigoted stereotype- which is ironic as you are accusing us of prejudice.

Were the charge that we were biased towards our own, we must plead guilty.

Prejudice, on the other hand is something else entirely.

By definition, "prejudice" is strong feelings or judgment about others, formed unfairly or before one knows all the facts, and incorporates reflexive and unthinking hostility towards others based on rumor innuend, and stereotype. Prejudi is judging others by the group to which they belong rather than by who they are.

Of all the posts made thus far, yours meet that definition better than any others.

We admit and work to overcome our biases- you seem to revel in yours.

[blueadept]

I've been an LDS member for almost twenty years and cannot recall a single instance of someone "trash talking" another faith.

I've attended many different faiths over the last forty years and saw the arrogance you speak of only rarely.

Hi selek,

While I may agree with your viewpoint of other faiths in 'rarely' engage in trash talking, I would upgrade that to 'on occasions.'

In regards to the LDS faith not "trash talking," I'm not sure you're a qualified person for that POV. While I wouldn't necessarily use the words "trash talking," I would use the term that I've experienced my faith totally misrepresented and not shown in a positive manner on 'rare' occasions.

It happens.

[selek]

Blue,

I agree that it does and can happen occasionally. It's inevitable that some idiot, given a microphone, is going to shoot his mouth off.But Little Jo isn't talking about the dottering loon in the corner or the drunk red-neck at the family picnic.

Little Jo is smarmily attempting to imply that such things are "business as usual" in every Western congregation.

Note what the little bomb-thrower said: "any given congregation on any given Sunday."

His slander isn't simply anti-Mormon or anti-Catholic, but is a scurrilous attack against Christianity in general- implying that bigotry, pride, and prejudice are the authoritative and sanctioned positions of every Christian church and congregation.

No honest observer can look at the Catholic or Mormon churches- or any other mainstream church- and make such a claim.

I can count on one hand and two feet the number of churches who actually fulfill that stereotype- Westboro Baptist being a notable example- and every one of them is a pariah and an embarrassment to their larger faith community.

Little Jo is implying that pride, prejudice, and judgementalism are the defining characteristic of Christianity- a blatantly and egregiously false slur- one that can ONLY be the product of a mind poisoned by the very kind of bigotry and prejudice of which Little Jo accuses us.

Or do you really believe that every congregation engages in trash talk every Sunday?

[mfbukowski]

Pa Pa's thread on racism and LDS got me thinking about a recent event in regards towards potential prejudice and LDS.

This past Thanksgiving I was at the LDS in-laws for the big family meal. In the group were 13 LDS adults and yours truly, Mudcat the EV.

As about half the group is unmarried, the topic of finding a mate naturally came up... Apparently in the rural Southern US, finding a mate for an LDS can be difficult if they are looking to marry within their faith, due to a very thinly spread LDS population.

A cousin who had moved from North MS to Southern Louisianna, brought up the topic that her particular area was mostly Catholic and she was only being asked out by Catholics. Others pointed out that in our particular area that Protestants were in abundance.

The cousin made the statement that she might have to entertain dating a Catholic. At this point my MIL and the mother of my cousin made some broad statements about Catholics and alcohol problems, gambling and so forth . Others talked about the problems of being "surrounded" by Protestants in our own area made it difficult, as well.

A suggestion was made, that finding a Protestant or Catholic and converting them would be a better solution. Everyone seemed to be in agreement that finding someone who was willing to convert was the best viable solution if no LDS mate seemed forthcoming.

IMO, my LDS family at times seems forgetful of the fact I am not LDS, or perhaps at times they are not cognizant of how such statements might be interpreted by a non-LDS family member. Consequently I have developed a bit of thicker skin in regards to such.

However, my wife was a bit aggravated with the situation and interjected a bit, for my/our sake... As the conversation seemed to be headed in a direction that was making me feel rather "second rate"... or something like that. She said something to the effect of finding someone who sincerely loves you and is a good spouse and parent and so forth.

I think it was at this point that the rest of the family sort of "picked up" on what they had been saying and the subject shifted fairly quickly. Regardless, the air got a bit thin around the dinner table after that. I thought it a good time to excuse myself. I retired the living room and played guitar for the kids, everyone eventually wound up in there singing songs with us and we all left in good spirits.

The whole thing was reminiscent of a Stake Conference I attended where Elder Christopherson and Elder Gay (a GA) spoke. Elder Gay, spoke at much length and painfully so about the marriage of his daughter to a member of another faith. Though the daughter's spouse did convert at some point.

Anyways. I think it is natural to have a predisposed bias towards someone who believes similarly.

However, if converting a mate to your beliefs seems to be a "viable" path, does this predilection towards LDS become a prejudice against those who are not LDS?

In other words, it seems to me that this notion of converting someone to marry... or perhaps marrying someone to convert, seems to be a very "conditional" sort of love.

What do you think about it?

Respectfully,

Mudcat

I must confess I have not read any other posts in the thread yet, because I wanted to respond directly to the OP without distractions about what others have said.

I think it is just that we place so much emphasis on being sealed, that this attitude is an unfortunate byproduct of that emphasis.

To an outside who does not know me, it would appear that my wife "converted me" because she was the one who introduced me to the church. (If you know me, you know that it was the church's philosophy and the spirit which converted me, but that is another story, my wife being "just" the one who introduced me to the church. I had always believed in similar doctrine, but had not found a church which believed as I did)

Because of this, I have heard this kind of statement before-- every time we tell the story of how we met and how I became converted, I hear the same comments: "Oh- you couldn't find a member so you converted one! Good for you!" -- and it definitely gets old after a while. I even hear this attitude from close members of my wife's family, so I can understand the "burn"

But I think that "prejudice" in the usual sense does not enter into it really, any more than is a natural part of life. I think we are all prejudiced in the sense that when we find out someone is this or that, we tend to lump them with others who are similar in our limited experience.

But it is important just to realize that it comes out of the doctrinal desire to be sealed in the temple.

Of course the reality is that we believe that everyone who is sincere will eventually come to our way of thinking, if not here, on the other side.

And from out discussions, I think that you would agree that the sincere in heart who are earnestly seeking to follow Christ will all end up together in the eternities, whatever that ultimately means. So my advice is to take it in that spirit!

OK now I will read the thread. I bet it says the same thing I just did.

[selek]

Blueadept,

jozov made a deceitful, hateful charge that can only be informed by the very prejudice and bigotry he pretends to decry-

I, for one, want to see the little bomb-thrower back up his accusation.

Don't you?

And if not, why not?

[jozov]

CFR, Little Jo.

I've been an LDS member for almost twenty years and cannot recall a single instance of someone "trash talking" another faith.

I've attended many different faiths over the last forty years and saw the arrogance you speak of only rarely.

Clearly, your stance is wrong.

I suspect you're operating from an ignorant and bigoted stereotype- which is ironic as you are accusing us of prejudice.

Were the charge that we were biased towards our own, we must plead guilty.

Prejudice, on the other hand is something else entirely.

By definition, "prejudice" is strong feelings or judgment about others, formed unfairly or before one knows all the facts, and incorporates reflexive and unthinking hostility towards others based on rumor innuend, and stereotype. Prejudi is judging others by the group to which they belong rather than by who they are.

Of all the posts made thus far, yours meet that definition better than any others.

We admit and work to overcome our biases- you seem to revel in yours.

So I answer the OP's question and I am reveling in my bias?

So in all your 40 years in various faiths you have never seen nor heard people talking about how foolish or evil some other church is while declaring how in the know they are? I find that hard to believe. I am prejudice for saying I have seen prejudice in other faiths? I did not say all religious PEOPLE are prejudice. I consider a religion and its members as two distinct entities. Maybe you don't, and that is where you take offense.

I love when people throw around the word bigot when someone does not agree with them. Bigot is an over used term. Let me give you the websters definition of bigot so you know what one is.

bigot: a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.

I don't think my statement showed that I was utterly intolerant of religion. So, why don't you just take a chill pill?

[handys003]

Hi Mudcat,

I think you and your MIL should come to Ceeboo's house for Thanksgiving next year.

We eat lots of Turkey, have a high stakes game of poker and all get completly hammered on Jack Daniels.

Peace,

Ceeboo

Yes I have an Irish Catholic friend who invited me to a Catholic heaven where we can drink plenty of beer!

[blueadept]

Blueadept,

jozov made a deceitful, hateful charge that can only be informed by the very prejudice and bigotry he pretends to decry-

I, for one, want to see the little bomb-thrower back up his accusation.

Don't you?

And if not, why not?

I'm agreeing with your POV selek even though I'm not as up in arms about this as you seem to be. Jozov does appear to be an antogonist and I'm trying not to label him too quickly wince he hasn't been here too long. This is a good board to talk about our differences. Time will tell what value jozov brings to the discussion.

[jozov]

Blueadept,

jozov made a deceitful, hateful charge that can only be informed by the very prejudice and bigotry he pretends to decry-

I, for one, want to see the little bomb-thrower back up his accusation.

Don't you?

And if not, why not?

The original post asked are LDS prejudice against other faiths. I took it step further and said they are all prejudice since they all claim they are the only true way. Prejudice and bias are pretty much the same thing. Look it up in the dictionary. In fact, definition 2 of "bias" in websters says "prejudice". I was not decrying anything other than making a statement. Again, you are confused about what bigotry is, and I did not say anywhere that religion was bigoted. Nor did I show utter contempt or hate for religion whic is bigotry. I said religion is prejudice. You can't claim that your religion is the only way to get to heaven and not be prejudice in my opinion.

Why are you so angry? Why are you calling me little jo? Is that supposed to demean me? Why are you calling me a hateful bomb thrower? Why are you so defensive? Why do you keep misuing the term bigot? Did you have a bad day today? You need to go out, get a strawberry milkshake and relax in front of the TV. The weekend is almost here. Take some deep breathes my friend.

[selek]

So I answer the OP's question and I am reveling in my bias?

So in all your 40 years in various faiths you have never seen nor heard people talking about how foolish or evil some other church is while declaring how in the know they are? I find that hard to believe. I am prejudice for saying I have seen prejudice in other faiths? I did not say all religious PEOPLE are prejudice. I consider a religion and its members as two distinct entities. Maybe you don't, and that is where you take offense.[/=] I already explained above specifically why your accusation was irresponsible and insulting. That you're now trying to back pedal, qualify, and duck the clear meaning of your charge tells me that you can't back the accusation.

I accept your retraction.

I love when people throw around the word bigot when someone does not agree with them. Bigot is an over used term. Let me give you the websters definition of bigot so you know what one is.

bigot: a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.

Which definition exonerater most Christians of your charge.

I don't think my statement showed that I was utterly intolerant of religion.

No one claimed you were intolerant of all religions- only that you had slurred all of Christianity.

So, why don't you just take a chill pill?

For the same reason you choose your words so poorly...

[selek]

All religions are pretty much prejudice against other faiths.

Note the wording here: all religions are prejudiced, rather than "some people in religions". Doesn't quite jibe with Little Jozov's later protests, now, does it?

They all claim they are the "one and only" and are eager to point out how the Bible or their scriptures prove them right.

Note again- Jozov is talking about the religion, not the people.

Sure people of other faiths are tolerant of their coworkers and neighbors of differing faiths... to their faces.

Ok, now Jozov has shifted to talking about people- and makes the blanket accusation that religious believers are "two-faced", hypocritical, and dishonest. No attempt to qualify his remarks- just a blanket, intolerant, and unsupported smear against people who don't believe as he does. What was that definition of bigotry again?

Go into any church on any given Sunday including LDS, and they will be trashing talking the errors of other faiths and holding their chins up high because they have the "real" knowledge on the things of God.

Again- no qualifiers, no attempt to differentiate.

If you can be found inside a Christian house of worship on Sunday, you're guilty of "trash-talking" and looking down at people of other faiths.

No exceptions, no quarter.

If you worship Christ on Sunday, you're prejudiced- at least according to Jozov.

[selek]

I'm agreeing with your POV selek even though I'm not as up in arms about this as you seem to be. Jozov does appear to be an antogonist and I'm trying not to label him too quickly wince he hasn't been here too long. This is a good board to talk about our differences. Time will tell what value jozov brings to the discussion.

Fair enough, Blue.

I think- aside from the actual meaning of his words- that Little Jo touched a raw nerve.

In point of fact, I was raised by an old-fashioned, sheet-wearing rednecked, bigot (and no, he wasn't Mormon)- and I've tried very hard to avoid getting any of it on me.

I know what bigotry and prejudice are- I spent the first eighteen years of my life being punished and persecuted for the color of my skin and because my girlfriend wasn't the same color. I've been mocked, belittled, and spat upon because of my faith- and I know what hatred, bigotry, and prejudice ARE.

To see every Christian tarred with that same brush just because some half-wit troll has a second-grade command of the English language is infuriating.

I've known good, decent, God-fearing people of every color, stripe, faith, and denomination- and reckless idiocy such as that poured forth by jozov insults them all.

[jozov]

Fair enough, Blue.

I think- aside from the actual meaning of his words- that Little Jo touched a tender spot.

In point of fact, I was raised by an old-fashioned, sheet-wearing rednecked, bigot- and I've tried very hard to avoid getting any of it on me.

To see every Christian tarred with that same brush just because some half-with troll has a second-grade command of the English language is infuriating.

I've known good, decent, God-fearing people of every color, stripe, faith, and denomination, and reckless idiocy such as that poured forth by jozov insults them all.

Wow the name calling continues. Half-with troll with a second-grade command of the English language? Why all the hate? What a Christ like person you are Selek! I was pretty clear in my explanation. I am not going to keep going round and round with you, so this is the last you will hear from me on this thread.