BoM Geography: The Gloves are Off...

[cinepro]

Mods, if you could take the word "coming" out of the Topic Header, that would bring it up to date.

Thanks

[David Bokovoy]

Wow! This has morphed into a very interesting discussion. Let's just tone down the rhetoric and have some fun!

John,

You can not find one incidence where child sacrifice was "approved of by the authors of the Bible and commanded by God himself.

[David Bokovoy]

Again, totally and completely false. Both lexicons are widely used by students and amateurs because they are cheap (their copyrights having expired decades and decades ago) and only one volume. They have been rendered largely obsolete by the discovery of the Ugaritic texts, which have quite literally revolutionized Northwest Semitic lexicography. Not only that, but your appeal to BDB and Gesenius is rendered all but irrelevant by your complete lack of familiarity with Biblical Hebrew. It's not as simple as pointing to a dictionary and saying "it must mean that."

You want a decent and up to date lexicon, go get Botterweck, HALOT, Jenni, or Klein.

I hear what you're saying, Mak, but I still love BDB and Gesenius, in fact, they're two of my all-time favorite books!

[volgadon]

I hear what you're saying, Mak, but I still love BDB and Gesenius, in fact, they're two of my all-time favorite books!

Gotta love the classics.

I'm sure that as true scholars Gesenius and BDB would all have been quite happy that scholarship has moved forward. After all, didn't the BDB team update Gesenius?

[David Bokovoy]

P.S.

Absolutely and completely false. Hebrew stems are hypothetical roots arrived at through a synthesis of their various usages and the morphologies that characterize them. Their meanings are debated as fiercely today as at any time period in the past.

I think maybe our friend John is using the term "stem" to refer to the binyanim or verbal structures, not the root. But even the binyanim are not always as as "self evident," and "non debatable" as John assumes.

Best

[volgadon]

P.S.

I think maybe our friend John is using the term "stem" to refer to the binyanim or verbal structures, not the root. But even the binyanim are not always as as "self evident," and "non debatable" as John assumes.

Best

Even in modern Hebrew for natives. Poor old Avshalom Kor would be out of a job if that weren't the case.....

[maklelan]

I hear what you're saying, Mak, but I still love BDB and Gesenius, in fact, they're two of my all-time favorite books!

I love Gesenius' grammar, but the lexicon isn't that great, in my opinion. I've used HALOT since my BA, and I love it. I think the only thing BDB has on HALOT is portability.

[David Bokovoy]

Gotta love the classics.

I'm sure that as true scholars Gesenius and BDB would all have been quite happy that scholarship has moved forward. After all, didn't the BDB team update Gesenius?

Gesenius was first edited and enlarged by E. Kautzsch. The book was then revised in 1909 by A.E. Cowley. It's always kind of fun to separate the sources and try to determine which grammarian you're dealing with. I really love this book, but I'm also crazy about the Brown Driver and Briggs Hebrew and English Lexicon. If fact, I may love this book even more! Despite the fact that some of its info is clearly outdated, I still think it has some advantages over HALOT. Perhaps what you're referring to is the fact that the BDB is based upon Gesenius' thesaurus complied by E. Rodiger?

[David Bokovoy]

I love Gesenius' grammar, but the lexicon isn't that great, in my opinion. I've used HALOT since my BA, and I love it. I think the only thing BDB has on HALOT is portability.

No way, you dirty dog! Don't be dissin' my BDB! There's no question HALOT has in many ways rendered BDB as obsolete, but don't be dissin' my baby!

[volgadon]

Gesenius was first edited and enlarged by E. Kautzsch. The book was then revised in 1909 by A.E. Cowley. It's always kind of fun to separate the sources and try to determine which grammarian you're dealing with. I really love this book, but I'm also crazy about the Brown Driver and Briggs Hebrew and English Lexicon. If fact, I may love this book even more! Despite the fact that some of its info is clearly outdated, I still think it has some advantages over HALOT. Perhaps what you're referring to is the fact that the BDB is based upon Gesenius' thesaurus complied by E. Rodiger?

Yes, that probably is what I'm thinking off. I for one am glad that both G and BDB are available online. I think BDB gives a good, basic understanding, a foothold, so to speak.

[David Bokovoy]

This thread makes me realize how old I am! You young kids just can't appreciate the classics! When I was working on my MA, Abraham Even-Shoshan's Concordance of the Bible in Hebrew was required for all exegetical work! Nobody used computers to look up words, you freaken' babies! I paid a mint for this book and I bet you youngins don't even know what it is!

Oh the shame!

[maklelan]

This thread makes me realize how old I am! You young kids just can't appreciate the classics! When I was working on my MA, Abraham Even-Shoshan's Concordance of the Bible in Hebrew was required for all exegetical work! Nobody used computers to look up words, you freaken' babies! I paid a mint for this book and I bet you youngins don't even know what it is!

Oh the shame!

I've used enough concordances for my Septuagint research. I'm happy to use my Dead Sea Scrolls electronic library to look stuff up now.

Don't know if you saw my post in another thread, but I'm about finished with my paper on ??? ???? ????, and I'd love it if you'd take a look at it.

[David Bokovoy]

I've used enough concordances for my Septuagint research. I'm happy to use my Dead Sea Scrolls electronic library to look stuff up now.

Don't know if you saw my post in another thread, but I'm about finished with my paper on ??? ???? ????, and I'd love it if you'd take a look at it.

I think I know which post you're referring to, but either way, would love to read your paper on the subject. I sent you an email via your facebook site.

Best,

--DB

[volgadon]

Not to boast, but I probably am one of the more knwoledgeable posters when it comes to biblical geography, it being a particular interest in my family. We've had access to a lot of sources that just aren't well known outside of Israel, plus have such sets as Zeev Vilnay's Ariel encyclopedia, the most comprehensive work (but still needs to be updated) on where things are, were and just as importantly, how those conclusions were reached.

So with that out of the way, most identifications are tentative. Finding a tel's name is the most sought after prize, after documents. It does not happen very often.

So if we can accept tentatives for the Bible, why not for the BoM?

[volgadon]

This thread makes me realize how old I am! You young kids just can't appreciate the classics! When I was working on my MA, Abraham Even-Shoshan's Concordance of the Bible in Hebrew was required for all exegetical work! Nobody used computers to look up words, you freaken' babies! I paid a mint for this book and I bet you youngins don't even know what it is!

Oh the shame!

Personally, I'd rather have a hard copy of any book (I'm old-fashioned that way), but lack the filthy lucre.

I never used a computer for any of my Bible assignments in school. I used the library's Even-Shoshan, actually. I bet Israel is the only country where schoolkids use that kind of stuff.

[David Bokovoy]

Personally, I'd rather have a hard copy of any book (I'm old-fashioned that way), but lack the filthy lucre.

I never used a computer for any of my Bible assignments in school. I used the library's Even-Shoshan, actually. I bet Israel is the only country where schoolkids use that kind of stuff.

There you go, Brother! I knew I loved you! That is so awesome! What an education! I love my copy of Even-Shoshan and over the years, I've put that thing to good use! I must admit, though, despite the love affair, I don't think I've cracked it open more than once or twice in the past seven years. I'm an Accordance man now. Just for fun, I went over and checked on amazon and you can still buy a used copy for $100.00. I bought my personal copy at a discounted SBL price back about ten year ago. Can't remember exactly how much it cost, but I know it was still pretty expensive.

[maklelan]

Not to boast, but I probably am one of the more knwoledgeable posters when it comes to biblical geography, it being a particular interest in my family. We've had access to a lot of sources that just aren't well known outside of Israel, plus have such sets as Zeev Vilnay's Ariel encyclopedia, the most comprehensive work (but still needs to be updated) on where things are, were and just as importantly, how those conclusions were reached.

So with that out of the way, most identifications are tentative. Finding a tel's name is the most sought after prize, after documents. It does not happen very often.

So if we can accept tentatives for the Bible, why not for the BoM?

This is another issue about which I bite my tongue at CARM. They continually assert that thousands of biblical toponyms have been positively identified, and I always wish I had the time to sit down and write out all the disputes about locales and just how flimsy some of the evidence is that supports locations that have been accepted for decades.

[Olavarria]

So if we can accept tentatives for the Bible, why not for the BoM?

Especially when BoM-era sites have names like Santa Rosa,San Lorenzo,Chiapa de Corzo,La Venta,El Manati etc.