1 Nephi 11: Didn't the Spirit Know Nephi Believed?

[Olavarria]

Here is a quote from Hieser:

he goes on

http://www.thedivinecouncil.com/HeiserIVPDC.pdf

1 Nephi 11:1-2

1)For it came to pass after I had desired to know the things that my father had seen, and believing that the Lord was able to make them known unto me, as I sat apondering in mine heart I was caught away in the Spirit of the Lord, yea, into an exceedingly high mountain, which I never had before seen, and upon which I never had before set my foot.

2) And the Spirit said unto me: Behold, what desirest thou?

3) And I said: I desire to behold the things which my father asaw.

4) And the Spirit said unto me: Believest thou that thy father saw the tree of which he hath spoken?

5) And I said: Yea, thou knowest that I believe all the words of my father.

8 And it came to pass that the Spirit said unto me: Look! And I looked and beheld a tree; and it was like unto the atree which my father had seen; and the bbeauty thereof was far beyond, yea, exceeding of all beauty; and the cwhiteness thereof did exceed the whiteness of the driven snow.

Ne. 11: 13-15

13 And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the great city of Jerusalem, and also other cities. And I beheld the city of Nazareth; and in the city of aNazareth I beheld a virgin, and she was exceedingly fair and white.

14 And it came to pass that I saw the aheavens open; and an angel came down and stood before me; and he said unto me: Nephi, what beholdest thou?

15 And I said unto him: A virgin, most beautiful and fair above all other virgins.

18 And he said unto me: Behold, the virgin whom thou seest is the mother of the Son of God, after the manner of the flesh.

20 And I looked and beheld the virgin again, bearing a child in her arms.

21 And the angel said unto me: Behold the aLamb of God, yea, even the bSon of the Eternal cFather! Knowest thou the meaning of the dtree which thy father saw?

So Nephi is cought up to an exceedingly high mountain to speak with the Spirit, a COuncil member. Another Council member comes down. While on the Mountain he sees a vision of an Asherah like tree and the associated divine consort(in this case, Mary).

1 Nephi 11:22

22) And I answered him, saying: Yea, it is the love of God, which sheddeth itself abroad in the hearts of the children of men; wherefore, it is the most desirable above all things.

I think this may be a play on words. Kevin Christiansen has said something on this before, that the love of God is both a person and a thing.

Song. 1: 15

15) Behold, thou art fair, my love(??????? ????? ?????????); behold, thou art fair; thou hast doves

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

An interesting exchange happens between Nephi and the Spirit of the Lord in 1 Nephi 11. The encounter includes a question and answer session between Nephi and the Spirit in which the Spirit asks Nephi if he believed that his Father witnessed a vision of the tree of life (v. 4).

Nephi

[Scottie]

It almost reads as if there is no God and that mortal men are writing these scriptures.

[Joseph Antley]

It almost reads as if there is no God

How so?

and that mortal men are writing these scriptures.

Of course mortal men are writing them. No one believes anything to the contrary.

[Olavarria]

http://www.thedivinecouncil.com/HeiserIVPDC.pdf

So, re-reading Hieser's little paper, I see that El and Asherah,the son's of God and the messengers were part of the council and that the council met on a mountain.

Nephi is on an exceedingly high mountain,mention is made of the Most High,an Asherah figure is presented,the Son of God is seen and we have messengers.

[volgadon]

Christ asked Peter 3 times if he loved him. Peter seems a little hurt by this, but each time Christ gives him something in connection with his answer. Since you love me, feed my sheep. Christ is teaching Peter WHY.

The angel helps Nephi appreciate why he is being given further knowledge.

Also, when we ask this sort of question, the person being asked has to affirm it to themselves.

It gets the person to think, but it also shows respect. Nephi isn't being taken and shown a vision just like that. The angel makes sure that Nephi wants to.

[Fly Fisherman]

I don't have much to add to these thoughts. But I have always felt that Heavenly Father wants to have dialogue and discussion with us. These questions seem to point to that. I love what Hugh Nibley said in his essay "Beyond Politics":

The question arises, If we decide to do things God's way will not all discussion cease? How could there be a discussion with God? Who would disagree with Him? If we go back to our basic creation story we are neither surprised nor shocked to hear that there was free discussion in heaven in the presence of God at the time of the Creation, when some suggested one plan and some another. "In the beginning was the Logos [counsel, discussion], and the Logos was in the presence of God, and all things were done according to it" (John 1:1; translated by the author). Satan was not cast out for disagreeing, but for attempting to resort to violence when he found himself outvoted. If we cannot clearly conceive of the type of discussion that goes on in the courts on high, we have some instructive instances of God's condescending to discuss things with men here on earth. "Come, let us reason together," He invites the children of Israel. Accordingly Abraham and Ezra both dared, humbly and apologetically, but still stubbornly, to protest what they considered, in the light of their limited understanding, unkind treatment of some of God's children. They just could not see why the Lord did or allowed certain things. So He patiently explained the situation to them, and then they understood. Enoch just couldn't see the justification for the mass destruction of his fellows by the coming flood; he too was stubborn about it: "And as Enoch saw this, he had bitterness of soul, and wept over his brethren, and said unto the heavens: I will refuse to be comforted; but the Lord said unto Enoch: Lift up your heart, and be glad; and look" (Moses 7:44; emphasis added).

God did not hold it against these men that they questioned Him, but loved them for it: it was because they were the friends of men, even at what they thought was the terrible risk of offending Him, that they became friends of God. The Lord was not above discussing matters with the brother of Jared, who protested that there was a serious defect in the vessels constructed according to the prescribed design: "Behold there is no light in them. . . . Wilt thou suffer that we shall cross this great water in darkness?" (Ether 2:22). Instead of blasting the man on the spot for his impudence, the Lord very reasonably asked the brother of Jared: "What will ye that I should do that ye may have light in your vessels?" (Ether 2:23). So they talked it over and, as a result, the brother of Jared prepared some beautiful fused quartz, that was as clear as glass but could not shine by itself. Again he went to the Lord, almost obliterated with humility, but still reminding the Lord that he was only following orders: "We know that thou art holy and dwellest in the heavens, and that we are unworthy before thee; because of the fall our natures have become evil continually [a vivid reminder of the gulf between the two waysthat our ways are not God's ways]; nevertheless, O Lord, thou hast given us a commandment that we must call upon thee, that from thee we may receive according to our desires" (Ether 3:2). So he screws up his courage and asks the Lord to do him a favor: "Touch these stones, O Lord, with thy finger . . . that they may shine forth in darkness" (Ether 3:4). The sight of God's finger quite overpowered the brother of Jared, knocked him flat, and that led to another discussion in which the Lord explained certain things to him at length. Moroni, recording these things, also recalls, "I have seen Jesus, and . . . he hath talked with me face to face, and . . . he told me in plain humility, even as a man telleth another in mine own language, concerning these things" (Ether 12:39).

[Olavarria]

There are definatly more leaves to turn with the idea that the BoM views the DC as governing power in the universe.