apologize Posted September 2, 2009 Posted September 2, 2009 Okay, I'm caught in the BoM trap. Do I have dignity now?Depends, are you willing to recognize that the Holy Spirit is not understood by logic?
Anticas Posted September 2, 2009 Posted September 2, 2009 Depends, are you willing to recognize that the Holy Spirit is not understood by logic?I disagree with this. The lord has invited us to reason with him and the Holy Ghost is not mutually exclusive to logic.
Ray Agostini Posted September 2, 2009 Posted September 2, 2009 Depends, are you willing to recognize that the Holy Spirit is not understood by logic?Delve into Paul Davies The Mind of God, and the often ignored experience of "mystical insight". Then it's back to mathematics and its relationship with physics. After this things get more philosophical, with a look at various arguments for a "God" or at least something "outside" the universe. The final chapter is a look at mysticism and contains a suggestion that non-rational (religious and mystical) approaches to understanding may be able to go beyond the limits of physics. A Review. It would be foolish to trash the BoM purely on the grounds of "logic". Such as arguing that historicity can make or break it. It provides "religious" insights that go, in this case, beyond "the limits of geography".
apologize Posted September 2, 2009 Posted September 2, 2009 Delve into Paul Davies The Mind of God, and the often ignored experience of "mystical insight". Had you answered directly...inlight of your pompous post:Pious fraud...No, I don't believe you qualify.A Review. It would be foolish to trash the BoM purely on the grounds of "logic". Such as arguing that historicity can make or break it. It provides "religious" insights..."Your kindness is blinding, just apologize.
apologize Posted September 2, 2009 Posted September 2, 2009 I disagree with this. The lord has invited us to reason with him and the Holy Ghost is not mutually exclusive to logic.How may I ask do you react to what Jesus said: 21 ¶ In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight. (Luke)
Ray Agostini Posted September 2, 2009 Posted September 2, 2009 Had you answered directly...inlight of your pompous post:No, I don't believe you qualify.It appears you don't understand what a pious fraud is. Nor what "pomposity" is. It's sort of like demanding another poster to post an introduction to a book he hasn't written. Your kindness is blinding...Wish I could say the same for you.
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted September 2, 2009 Posted September 2, 2009 It appears you don't understand what a pious fraud is. Nor what "pomposity" is. It's sort of like demanding another poster to post an introduction to a book he hasn't written. Wish I could say the same for you.I was about to get involved but then I thought what is the point. I don't know if it is wise to entertain anything Apologize is saying. Although this post of yours did make me laugh.How may I ask do you react to what Jesus said:21 ¶ In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight. (Luke)Huh? I fail to see how this verse of scripture has any relevance to the idea of not using logic. Oh wait I guess I should toss out all logic then I will get it?
apologize Posted September 2, 2009 Posted September 2, 2009 It appears you don't understand what a pious fraud is. Nor what "pomposity" is. It's sort of like demanding another poster to post an introduction to a book he hasn't written. Side step the BoM, your words are recorded.
apologize Posted September 2, 2009 Posted September 2, 2009 then I will get it?Show a post where you got it?
Ray Agostini Posted September 2, 2009 Posted September 2, 2009 Side step the BoM, your words are recorded.No side-stepping on my part - just careful consideration over many years, Your Highness.
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted September 2, 2009 Posted September 2, 2009 Show a post where you got it?I guess since I can't "show a post" I guess I didn't ever get it. Oh borther..
apologize Posted September 2, 2009 Posted September 2, 2009 An answer:Are you willing to recognize that the Holy Spirit is not understood by logic?...careful consideration over many years, Your Rightness.Why serve logic?
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted September 2, 2009 Posted September 2, 2009 An answer:Why serve logic?Who said anything about serving logic? Are we supposed to not use our heads when making descisions?
Anticas Posted September 2, 2009 Posted September 2, 2009 How may I ask do you react to what Jesus said:This verse of scripture in no way eludes to people not reasoning with God or using logic to understand his teachings/gospel. Most confirmations from the HG come after a person has studied an issue and prayed fervently for assistance. Logic, though not the only part, is absolutely one of the key elements in the process.
apologize Posted September 2, 2009 Posted September 2, 2009 Logic, though not the only part, is absolutely one of the key elements in the process.What part?
Ray Agostini Posted September 2, 2009 Posted September 2, 2009 Why serve logic?As Jefferson wrote:Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear. But did I say I was "serving logic"? Those are your words. Dismissing my reference to Davies as "pompous" tells me you're a one-trick-pony with a one-track mind. Deep thought doesn't appear to be your forte.
apologize Posted September 2, 2009 Posted September 2, 2009 As Jefferson wrote: But did I say I was "serving logic"? Those are your words. Dismissing my reference to Davies as "pompous" tells me you're a one-trick-pony with a one-track mind. Deep thought doesn't appear to be your forte.Your intellect is awesome. The same that showed you God?
Ray Agostini Posted September 2, 2009 Posted September 2, 2009 Your intellect is awesome. The same that showed you God?I had it all worked out by the time I was eight, using mathematics, logic, and quantum physics.
apologize Posted September 2, 2009 Posted September 2, 2009 I had it all worked out by the time I was eight, using mathematics, logic, and quantum physics.No wonder you got caught in the BoM trap; like quicksand.
Anticas Posted September 2, 2009 Posted September 2, 2009 What part?You cannot study anything out in your mind without using logic. Logic and reason go together. You cannot understand any communication from anyone (including the Lord) without the use of reason and Logic. I am not saying that logic is the confirmation or the conclusion, but you simply could not understand an issue well enough to even attempt communication with the Lord about it without the use of logic. Even the act of praying in itself requires logic:If - I believe that when I pray I will get an answerThen - I will pray for an answer.This is the most basic use of logic.
Ray Agostini Posted September 2, 2009 Posted September 2, 2009 No wonder you got caught in the BoM trap; like quicksand.Is there something intrinsically bad about that? If so, I fail to see what.
apologize Posted September 2, 2009 Posted September 2, 2009 I FAIL TO SEE what.The point, you will not see, as you trash the Spirit-filled with your logic. At the bar, where Spirit dwells, it will be clear; or, repent now, and use half the mental effort you spent these years serving logic, and serve God.
Ray Agostini Posted September 2, 2009 Posted September 2, 2009 The point, you will not see, as you trash the Spirit-filled with your logic. At the bar, where Spirit dwells, it will be clear; or, repent now, and use half the mental effort you spent these years serving logic, and serve God.You know a lot about me. While typing this I'm also listening to John Larsen's interview with John Dehlin on Mormon Expression (considerably more interesting than this exchange, btw).What are your thoughts about this interview?
apologize Posted September 2, 2009 Posted September 2, 2009 You cannot study anything out in your mind without using logic. That formula has flaws.Logic and reason go together. You cannot understand any communication from anyone (including the Lord) without the use of reason and Logic. I am not saying that logic is the confirmation or the conclusion, but you simply could not understand an issue well enough to even attempt communication with the Lord about it without the use of logic. How does God communicate? Through the Spirit. How does the Spirit work with multiple languages? Language, though important, is now how to know truth.Even the act of praying in itself requires logic:If - I believe that when I pray I will get an answerThen - I will pray for an answer.This is the most basic use of logic.No, the Spirit should tell you what you should pray for. Again, how does the Spirit communicate? You cannot know God by logic, nor does God respond to man's puny attemts to logically dissect him. Sceptics make great scientists, research assistants, but horrible, absolutely horrible Christians.
Aquilifer Posted September 2, 2009 Posted September 2, 2009 This whole thread has taken a bizarre and absolutely incomprehensible diversion.
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