Lds Prophets - Official Doctrine Vs. Personal Opinions

[wes]

Wes, so far everything has given you reasonable doubt so I'm not surprised at all. I realize now as a fundamentalist "saved" Christian you likely believe the Bible is all there is and that prophets must be perfect, that they must know all, etc. and all sorts of other assumptions Latter-day Saints ought not share.If you showed any sign of actually understanding the explanation things might be different. As it stands, you don't. You simply disregard it with a terse statement. You are seriously acting like a troll rather than one who wants to have a constructive conversation.

Note: Wes apparently thinks Brigham Young viewed scriptures as he does, as perfect God-breathed puppet-style dictation. His problem in saying BY said all his sermons were scripture is that he doesn't understand what Brigham Young himself believed about the nature of scripture.

Few of the people on this board seem to want a constructive conversation. I've heard a lot more insults than I have constructive comments.

[Lamanite]

But shouldn't a supposed living prophet of the church that claims to have the restored gospel be a bit more clued in about such things? Gives me reasonable doubt as to his legitimacy.

Perhaps he could have been more forthcoming, but since the Bible proscribes casting pearls before swine he offered a statement of deflection. Deflection may be the wrong word. His answer was careful and measured

Lamanite

Edit to add clarification

[wes]

Perhaps he could have been more forthcoming, but since the Bible proscribes casting pearls before swine he offered a statement of deflection. Deflection may be the wrong word. His answer was careful and measured

Lamanite

Edit to add clarification

This kind of explanation is common for devout Mormons, but for the rest of us it just doesn't fly.

[Bat-Man]

Few of the people on this board seem to want a constructive conversation. I've heard a lot more insults than I have constructive comments.

What question would you like to see answered that hasn't already been answered?

I see no point in continuing to argue with you. I have told you what I know is true.

[LDSMusic483]

This kind of explanation is common for devout Mormons, but for the rest of us it just doesn't fly.

Wes, you only use your accusations against our leadership. Once again, for the third time, why don't you apply it to your Savior as He also wasn't as forthcoming with His pearls. It's only okay if it's something you believe in right? You are acting like a blatant hypocrite.

[wes]

What question would you like to see answered that hasn't already been answered?

I see no point in continuing to argue with you. I have told you what I know is true.

This thread has gotten way off topic. Quite awhile back I asked people to only post things related to the original question posed but few did so. I would still like to hear any new thoughts on the issue, otherwise please don't post.

[LifeOnaPlate]

Few of the people on this board seem to want a constructive conversation. I've heard a lot more insults than I have constructive comments.

Often your responses (mostly non-responses) to the answers of substance quickly lead to realizing how futile it is to spend a lot of time answering you. Remember the time I told you about the fellow who I made a long thread for to answer his question, only to have my efforts wasted?

[wes]

Wes, you only use your accusations against our leadership. Once again, for the third time, why don't you apply it to your Savior as He also wasn't as forthcoming with His pearls. It's only okay if it's something you believe in right? You are acting like a blatant hypocrite.

There's a big difference between not answering and saying "I don't know."

[LifeOnaPlate]

This kind of explanation is common for devout Mormons, but for the rest of us it just doesn't fly.

So the very words of Jesus "don't fly." Alright.

[Lamanite]

This kind of explanation is common for devout Mormons, but for the rest of us it just doesn't fly.

Why?

These things are sacred to us. The analogy of casting pearls before swine is not emphasizing the swine, rather it points out the fact that swine have no use for pearls-- which do have value to others.

These things are for us to understand. For those with ears to hear and eyes to see. You should study your own beliefs and wring out every last drop of truth you can, and leave the heretical Mormons to themselves.

I can't hammer it into your brain.

Perhaps this will resonate with you:

"And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the Lord. And, behold, the Lord passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the Lord; but the Lord was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the Lord was not in the earthquake:

"And after the earthquake a fire; but the Lord was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice. 1 Kgs. 19:11-12

To understand this subject of Doctrine, one must also understand and "HEAR" the still small voice.

Big UP!

Lamanite

[LDSMusic483]

There's a big difference between not answering and saying "I don't know."

He said "I don't know that we teach it or emphasize it." That's not the same as saying "I don't know about it."

[wes]

Why?

These things are sacred to us. The analogy of casting pearls before swine is not emphasizing the swine, rather it points out the fact that swine have no use for pearls-- which do have value to others.

These things are for us to understand. For those with ears to hear and eyes to see. You should study your own beliefs and wring out every last drop of truth you can, and leave the heretical Mormons to themselves.

I can't hammer it into your brain.

Perhaps this will resonate with you:

To understand this subject of Doctrine, one must also understand and "HEAR" the still small voice.

Big UP!

Lamanite

Then why didn't GBH just say it was a sacred matter that he wished not to discuss? Instead he said "I don't know" 6 times.

[Lamanite]

Then why didn't GBH just say it was a sacred matter that he wished not to discuss? Instead he said "I don't know" 6 times.

I don't know, ask the still small voice and quit focusing on earthquakes and fires. lol

Big UP buddy,

Lamanite

[LDSMusic483]

Then why didn't GBH just say it was a sacred matter that he wished not to discuss? Instead he said "I don't know" 6 times.

You are trying to make it look like he's an ignorant fool when you know those weren't just left at "I don't know" statements. It had nothing to do on his knowledge of the subject or doctrine as he himself said later. If he had said, "it's a sacred matter that he didn't wish to discuss" you'd probably be on here saying, why could other prophets discuss it but not GBH? You're looking for any way possible to attack our leader, which says much about the reasons you have for our church not being true.

[Bat-Man]

This thread has gotten way off topic. Quite awhile back I asked people to only post things related to the original question posed but few did so. I would still like to hear any new thoughts on the issue, otherwise please don't post.

It may help if you clearly define the parameters of the issue which you would like to see addressed in this thread. It may not be enough to tell people that you want them to only post things "related" to the original question posed, because they may consider their posts to be "related" to that issue even though it is "related" somewhere way out there in left field.

... oh, and just so you know, I consider this post to be "related" to your original question, whether or not you agree with me.

[urroner]

Few of the people on this board seem to want a constructive conversation. I've heard a lot more insults than I have constructive comments.

That's the truest statement that you have ever made on this board. The truth is out.

Just a thought, where are your constructive comments that you have made either in this thread or on the board as a whole? I honestly feel, from reading you past post that one insult would be more than your constructive comments, and this is not meant as an insult, rather it is an observation on my part and a sincere response to your above comment.

[urroner]

It may help if you clearly define the parameters of the issue which you would like to see addressed in this thread. It may not be enough to tell people that you want them to only post things "related" to the original question posed, because they may consider their posts to be "related" to that issue even though it is "related" somewhere way out there in left field.

... oh, and just so you know, I consider this post to be "related" to your original question, whether or not you agree with me.

In lieu of the word "post", I would have love to have seen the word "discuss." Posting is always easy, find some quote, distort it, throw it up and see how the natives react is all too easy, but discussing can be difficult and defending one's self without attacking others is difficult.

What do you think wes?

[zerinus]

Then why didn't GBH just say it was a sacred matter that he wished not to discuss? Instead he said "I don't know" 6 times.

It is not "a sacred matter that we can't discuss". He was saying that this doctrine is no longer actively taught or empnhasized in the Church, which is correct. When was the last time that you heard this doctrine being taught at the General Conference of the Church?

zerinus

[Bat-Man]

In lieu of the word "post", I would have love to have seen the word "discuss." Posting is always easy, find some quote, distort it, throw it up and see how the natives react is all too easy, but discussing can be difficult and defending one's self without attacking others is difficult.

How much of this back and forth stuff do you think it will take before you see my point while trying not to find some quote, distort it, throw it up and see how the natives react to it?

The point of having a discussion is to convey a point, not to see how long people can go back and forth with each other as if the back and forth stuff is the point of the discussion.

... and whether or not you agree with me, or see my point, I am done with this discussion.

[wenglund]

Here we are 14 pages into the "discussion" and we have yet to come anywhere close to a concensus with wes and seamo let alone amongst ourselves. So, I am wondering about the productivity of such "discussions".

I would submit that even were we able to come to a concensus on this issue, it would have absolutely no impact on anyone's perception about the restored gospel. So, again I am wondering about the efficacy of such "discussions".

HOwever, what this "discussion" has reinforced to my mind, is the point that I made earlier that the issue of this thread asks the wrong question and unwittingly evinces a fundamental misunderstanding of the intents and purposes of the restored gospel.

Oh well....carry on!

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[saemo]

Here we are 14 pages into the "discussion" and we have yet to come anywhere close to a concensus with wes and seamo let alone amongst ourselves. So, I am wondering about the productivity of such "discussions".

Which has been my conclusion for a long time.

I would submit that even were we able to come to a concensus on this issue, it would have absolutely no impact on anyone's perception about the restored gospel.

True. I would continue to believe that a "restoration" is not necessary.

HOwever, what this "discussion" has reinforced to my mind, is the point that I made earlier that the issue of this thread asks the wrong question and unwittingly evinces a fundamental misunderstanding of the intents and purposes of the restored gospel.

Oh well....carry on!

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

OH no,not the "wrong question" answer!!!

[urroner]

Which has been my conclusion for a long time.

True. I would continue to believe that a "restoration" is not necessary.

OH no,not the "wrong question" answer!!!

One doesn't learn right answers until one learns to ask the right questions.

If God called me before Him tonight and said, "Lynn, ask me any question, but only one, and I will answer it," I would have many questions to ask, but I honestly feel I don't know the right question to ask. I hope to be able to find the right question to ask before I do meet Him since I "know" the answer to most of the important questions I would ask Him.

[saemo]

One doesn't learn right answers until one learns to ask the right questions.

If God called me before Him tonight and said, "Lynn, ask me any question, but only one, and I will answer it," I would have many questions to ask, but I honestly feel I don't know the right question to ask. I hope to be able to find the right question to ask before I do meet Him since I "know" the answer to most of the important questions I would ask Him.

I'd ask, "May I stay with You?"

[Cold Steel]

It has been the position of the Mormon Church that not everything said by LDS prophets is considered official doctrine. Thus, my question is this - How is one to determine what is official and what is opinion?

If the president of the church thinks enough of an issue to mention it publicly, that's enough for me. Fortunately, I tend to vote the same way most of them probably vote, so it's not an issue. I don't know, though, who they voted for (most of them) in the last election; however, I have my suspicions.My own personal views tend to be libertarian in nature. Being a victim of chronic pain and seeing how the federal government persecutes doctors for prescribing narcotics, I've become very much for legalized drugs, preferring to have the government not to be involved in it at all rather than having it involved too much. Still, I suspect most of the brethren are not in favor of legalized drugs and, if it came down to it, I would support their views over my own if that was their counsel.Look, these guys know how people listen to them and I think they're careful not to say things that could be misconstrued. That means that when they do state political opinions, we ought to sit up and pay notice.

I'd ask, "May I stay with You?"

I'm sure His answer would be: "That's entirely up to you."

[LeSellers]

I'd ask, "May I stay with You?"

I'm sure His answer would be: "That's entirely up to you."

Or perhaps, "How badly do you want it?

Lehi