Jesus And Jehovah

[Koneko]

I am currently reading the Bible and Book of Mormon for the first time, and I am a little confused about the difference(if any?) between Jesus and Jehovah. I tried searching on the internet but I run into a bunch of confusing anti-mormon descriptions that I really don't want to read. So please help me understand, are they interchangeable? Someone mentioned to me that he always thought Jehovah was the name we knew Jesus Christ by in the premortal existence. This sounded reasonable to me, but then I got to wondering how do other religions who don't believe in the premortal existence justify this difference? Does anyone know a good link to an ensign article, speech by one of the apostles or some chapter in BoM that may explain this better to me? Also, is it true that most places where it says God in the Bible it means Jesus? How can you tell when it really means Heavenly Father? Do other religions believe this as well?

I apologize for the ignorance, but I am new to religion on the whole. I'm curious not only to understand LDS doctrine but also why/where we differ from other Christians in our teachings. Thanks for any insight.

Peace,

Koneko

[BCSpace]

Jesus Christ and Jehovah are one and the same with a few name-title exceptions.

Look in the Topical Guide under Jesus Christ. For example, you'll see under Jesus Christ - Creator, OT verses referencing him as Lord (Jehovah) and in the NT as Christ.

[billatkinsonbc]

Hi Koneko

In some senses this difference in names is a difference in function and responsibility. As Jehovah, Jesus our brother, was in charge of creation under the direction of Heavenly Father. I don't begin to understand the full reason for that "delegation of authority" but is is clearly part of the scriptures in both the New Testament and most clearly in the Book of Mormon. As the Savior of us all he is Jesus Christ and since it was His plan that we accepted in order to come to earth to gain bodies and experience He was the one, as Jehovah, who saw to its immediate implementation.

Mosiah 3 is perhaps the clearest I can find quickly:

Mosiah 3: 5-

5 For behold, the time cometh, and is not far distant, that with power, the Lord Omnipotent who reigneth, who was, and is from all eternity to all eternity, shall come down from heaven among the children of men, and shall dwell in a tabernacle of clay, and shall go forth amongst men, working mighty miracles, such as healing the sick, raising the dead, causing the lame to walk, the blind to receive their sight, and the deaf to hear, and curing all manner of diseases.

6 And he shall cast out devils, or the evil spirits which dwell in the hearts of the children of men.

7 And lo, he shall suffer temptations, and pain of body, hunger, thirst, and fatigue, even more than man can suffer, except it be unto death; for behold, blood cometh from every pore, so great shall be his anguish for the wickedness and the abominations of his people.

8 And he shall be called Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of heaven and earth, the Creator of all things from the beginning; and his mother shall be called Mary.

9 And lo, he cometh unto his own, that salvation might come unto the children of men even through faith on his name; and even after all this they shall consider him a man, and say that he hath a devil, and shall scourge him, and shall crucify him.

The same sentiment in John 1 is more poetic, in some senses more powerful and moving, but not as clear to understand but as long as you know that "the Word" is Christ then it all makes sense:

John 1: 1-4

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

I'll finish off with Hebrews 1

Hebrews 1:1-3

1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

So that is a start. Once again Heavenly Father generally only appears on scene in order to introduce and in essence testify of his son Jesus Christ/Jehovah. That is of course another whole topic but there are very few times in scripture where the word God or Father is actually referring to Heavenly Father, especially in the Old Testament it is referring mostly to Jehovah/Jesus.

Let me know if that is any help, it is something to get used to, however we clearly know from Joseph Smith's First Vision, which I have a firm testimony of, that there is Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ, they are two different distinct personages and they both love and cherish everyone of us.

[billatkinsonbc]

Hi Koneko

In some senses this difference in names is a difference in function and responsibility. As Jehovah, Jesus our brother, was in charge of creation under the direction of Heavenly Father. I don't begin to understand the full reason for that "delegation of authority" but is is clearly part of the scriptures in both the New Testament and most clearly in the Book of Mormon. As the Savior of us all he is Jesus Christ and since it was His plan that we accepted in order to come to earth to gain bodies and experience He was the one, as Jehovah, who saw to its immediate implementation.

Mosiah 3 is perhaps the clearest I can find quickly:

Mosiah 3: 5-

5 For behold, the time cometh, and is not far distant, that with power, the Lord Omnipotent who reigneth, who was, and is from all eternity to all eternity, shall come down from heaven among the children of men, and shall dwell in a tabernacle of clay, and shall go forth amongst men, working mighty miracles, such as healing the sick, raising the dead, causing the lame to walk, the blind to receive their sight, and the deaf to hear, and curing all manner of diseases.

6 And he shall cast out devils, or the evil spirits which dwell in the hearts of the children of men.

7 And lo, he shall suffer temptations, and pain of body, hunger, thirst, and fatigue, even more than man can suffer, except it be unto death; for behold, blood cometh from every pore, so great shall be his anguish for the wickedness and the abominations of his people.

8 And he shall be called Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of heaven and earth, the Creator of all things from the beginning; and his mother shall be called Mary.

9 And lo, he cometh unto his own, that salvation might come unto the children of men even through faith on his name; and even after all this they shall consider him a man, and say that he hath a devil, and shall scourge him, and shall crucify him.

The same sentiment in John 1 is more poetic, in some senses more powerful and moving, but not as clear to understand but as long as you know that "the Word" is Christ then it all makes sense:

John 1: 1-4

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

I'll finish off with Hebrews 1

Hebrews 1:1-3

1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

So that is a start. Once again Heavenly Father generally only appears on scene in order to introduce and in essence testify of his son Jesus Christ/Jehovah. That is of course another whole topic but there are very few times in scripture where the word God or Father is actually referring to Heavenly Father, especially in the Old Testament it is referring mostly to Jehovah/Jesus.

Let me know if that is any help, it is something to get used to, however we clearly know from Joseph Smith's First Vision, which I have a firm testimony of, that there is Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ, they are two different distinct personages and they both love and cherish everyone of us.

[billatkinsonbc]

Koneko and all

Ooops , I am fairly new at this and I think in the process of checking out the post before sending it up I managed to post it twice.

Sorry I hope the moderator can fix it, how does one contact the moderator??? Does one?

[jadams_4242]

Koneko and all

Ooops , I am fairly new at this and I think in the process of checking out the post before sending it up I managed to post it twice.

Sorry I hope the moderator can fix it, how does one contact the moderator??? Does one?

At bottom of page yu can edit and leave a "dupe" message.

[Cold Steel]

When the Fall came about, the Father could no longer deal with mankind directly. Mankind needed an intercessor. As Adam (Michael) had been chosen to be the first man, Jehovah (Jesus) was chosen to be man's intercessor with the Father. In the early days in the Garden, the Father had known man intimately and communicated with him whenever He or they, desired it. Once the Fall occurred, however, man communicated with God on a far different basis. Now God replied based on each man's faith and righteousness, and his ability to live in righteousness. Even our planet was removed from its orbit and we were placed in this one.

Thus, each time you see a place where God is speaking to man (Moses, Brother of Jared), it's always Jesus who is speaking. That's why Jesus touched off controversy when he told the Jews, "Before Abraham was, I Am." In short, he was telling them that before Abraham he was the great "I Am" who spoke to the prophets.

During the Millennium, prayer will be instantaneous in communication and there will be no waiting required. (Sure wish I could have wrangled it to come to the Earth then!)

[kamenraider]

My understanding is that both the Father and Son are referred to as Jehovah in the scriptures. For example:

Judges 6:12-14

12 And the angel of the Lord appeared unto him, and said unto him, The LORD is with thee, thou mighty man of valour.

13 And Gideon said unto him, Oh my Lord, if the LORD be with us, why then is all this befallen us? and where be all his miracles which our fathers told us of, saying, Did not the LORD bring us up from Egypt? but now the LORD hath forsaken us, and delivered us into the hands of the Midianites.

14 And the LORD looked upon him, and said, Go in this thy might, and thou shalt save Israel from the hand of the Midianites: have not I sent thee?

Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Zechariah 2:10-11

10

[Koneko]

Hi All,

Thanks for the clarifications on when Heavenly Father is meant. I suspected as much that it was most usually Jesus, but did not realize for instance that God in the Garden of Eden would have been Heavenly Father. Just for reference, are there any instances other than this and the first vision that you can think of that would be Heavenly Father's direct interaction?

My understanding is that both the Father and Son are referred to as Jehovah in the scriptures.

Hmm that is interesting, is Jehovah a general word to describe God then? Anyone know the translation of Jehovah from Hebrew or Arabic? Is Elohim ever used to describe any other than Heavenly Father?

[Cold Steel]

The Father appears only to bear witness of the Son. When Jesus was baptized, the Father spoke from Heaven. The apostles also heard the Father reply to the Son in prayer.

I think it was Joseph Fielding Smith who said that every dispensation was begun by an appearance of the Godhead. The Son or the Holy Spirit does all the communicating.

There are references to multiple Lords, the most famous of which is Psalms 110:1-2: "The LORD saith unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand...." David, being King, had only one Lord. This has always been a problem for the Jews and if you do a Google search, you'll see where they've tried to tackle it. Still, it shows that the two were not physically one, but One in unity of purpose, which is to bring about the immortality and eternal life of man. (And notice that immortality is not the same as eternal life.)

[Koneko]

Thanks for the responses and scriptures, much appreciated. I think I get how to decipher when HF or Jesus are being referred to now. Do you know is this belief shared by other Christian denominations? I have heard their Bible is somewhat different in translation, so I am just curious.

And notice that immortality is not the same as eternal life.

If you have time and energy, would you explain in more detail? (Or link some scripture I can refer to...) I am curious what you mean by this.

[kamenraider]

Hmm that is interesting, is Jehovah a general word to describe God then?

I don't think it's a name in the exclusive and personal sense, but I wouldn't call it just a "general word to describe God" either.

Anyone know the translation of Jehovah from Hebrew or Arabic?

It's a combination of the tenses of the Hebrew verb "to be" -- "He was", "He is", and "He will be" -- into one name. Also, I think it's interesting that if you say it backwards, it makes the sounds of the Hebrew words for "He" and "She". Another interesting thing is that the numeric value of the Tetragrammaton (transliterated as "Jehovah") is 26 and so is the value of the sum of the parts of the Hebrew letter aleph. In addition, "Adam" and "yod", "he", "vav", "he" spelled out in Hebrew both have the numeric value 45.

Is Elohim ever used to describe any other than Heavenly Father?

'elohiym [el-o-heem']

plural of eloah

1) (plural)

1a) rulers, judges

1b) divine ones

1c) angels

1d) gods

2) (plural intensive singular meaning)

2a) god, goddess

2b) godlike one

2c) works or special possessions of God

2d) the (true) God

2e) God

[Koneko]

Wow there is so much to learn...that is a very interesting name indeed. It reminds me of some of the verses where he spells out that he is the Alpha and Omega, he was there at the beginning and will be at the end. I find the numeric values of hebrew words a fascinating concept. It seems like there is so much in a name....more than just what someone is called.

Also, nevermind about the difference of eternal life and immortality. The missionaries stopped by and explained it to me this evening.